Jeb Bush: Give 11 Million Immigrants Chance to Stay

[MACVSOG68]

The definition that I understood for "natural born citizen" would have precluded Cruz, due to birth outside the US.

When George Romney ran in 1968, a legal opinion was written for the Congress, which concluded he was NOT eligible, because he was born in Mexico, although to US citizen parents. It didn't matter, because Romney dropped out, and many other issues and topics dominated politics and the news that year.

When all the controversy arose over Obama, mention of McCain arose, and the bill passed to deem him eligible.

McCain was born in an hospital in Panama while his Navy father served there. It was tantamount to declaring the location of a hospital and the father's service, were equivalent to a diplomatic situation.

The historical determination was either born in the US, or if born abroad must be diplomatic status.

Following that interpretation Cruz would NOT be eligible, but Rubio and Obama would be eligible.

You're correct that being born in the US or within its jurisdiction was the historical meaning of NBC, but since being born outside the US wasn't discussed at the time, it later came under the 1790 Naturalization Act.

Since the courts have never really discussed the issue of being born abroad and who might be a NBC, I'm sure it will come up later this year. 

[MACVSOG68]

That's a single generation issue.

The children of illegal aliens, irrespective of their parent's legal status, will be born US citizens, with all rights and privileges guaranteed by the Constitution. So then, in a strictly political sense, are Republicans better off marginalizing that future voting block or just bitting the bullet now and making a play for it?

Hell, they're tossing aside the current voting block, not just the future one.

[Free Vulcan]

I dodged no point.  I told you what the main parts of the bills were.  And the GOP didn't reject it, a handful filibustered it.  Had it gone to a vote, it would have passed.  Those who voted to continue the debate were influenced by issues having nothing to do with the bill itself, but rather attempts to paint all Hispanic/Latinos as drug peddling, tax cheating welfare chasing rapists who refuse to speak English, and come here simply to make and drop off babies.  Much easier for Tanton's groups to go after non-Europeans in general than issues within the bill, especially since most Americans wanted exactly what was in the proposed legislation.

What Obama has done in his "amnesty" program is deplorable.  But the Republicans have no one to blame but themselves.  In almost every poll for the past 10 to 12 years, most Americans want comprehensive immigration reform, and want some type of legalization for those already here.  No one, either R or D is going to deport 11 million illegals, not now, not ever.  It's time the GOP woke up and determine to deal with it, rather than put it off year after year. 

It's not just about better border security or employer sanctions, legalization decisions or a multitude of other absurd sections of the current law.  It's about all of it!  And that's the only way it can be dealt with.

The main parts yes. But what was the devil in the details? What was the turd the Dems put in there to make the GOP vote against the bill even though the rest was good? Until someone shows me that wasn't the issue, I'm skeptical.

[Bigun]

Wouldn't that eliminate Senator Cruz then, given that in your opinion he isn't a natural born citizen?

Yes!

[Luis Gonzalez]

The main parts yes. But what was the devil in the details? What was the turd the Dems put in there to make the GOP vote against the bill even though the rest was good? Until someone shows me that wasn't the issue, I'm skeptical.

The word "amnesty" was used. Dog-whistle politics.

No one really wanted to discuss the substance of the legislation beyond that word.

[MACVSOG68]

The main parts yes. But what was the devil in the details? What was the turd the Dems put in there to make the GOP vote against the bill even though the rest was good? Until someone shows me that wasn't the issue, I'm skeptical.

Before Harry Reid put those two bills before the whole Senate, he was betting the Republicans would filibuster, then he could withdraw and table them.  He could then make an appeal to Hispanic voters that the Republicans were just being racist since all of their issues with the bill had been settled, when Kennedy finally agreed to an amendment making anyone with any gang affiliation ineligible for legalization.

It was quite a gamble...and it worked.  Are we (Americans) better off today?  Hardly.

[MACVSOG68]

Yes!

Then Cruz isn't one of those you mentioned earlier who would be following the Constitution?

[Free Vulcan]

Before Harry Reid put those two bills before the whole Senate, he was betting the Republicans would filibuster, then he could withdraw and table them.  He could then make an appeal to Hispanic voters that the Republicans were just being racist since all of their issues with the bill had been settled, when Kennedy finally agreed to an amendment making anyone with any gang affiliation ineligible for legalization.

It was quite a gamble...and it worked.  Are we (Americans) better off today?  Hardly.

Exactly. There was a turd used by Reid to manipulate, and also the pathway to citizenship that conservatives rejected. There were also other amendments that Dems offered that soured the soup. And it wasn't just conservatives that didn't support it, even some unions and LULAC went against it. The final cloture vote against included 16 Democrats, some of whom were against the bill because it would have meant W would have signed it and got the credit.

The reality is a little more complicated than what you've set forth.

[MACVSOG68]

Exactly. There was a turd used by Reid to manipulate, and also the pathway to citizenship that conservatives rejected. There were also other amendments that Dems offered that soured the soup. And it wasn't just conservatives that didn't support it, even some unions and LULAC went against it. The final cloture vote against included 16 Democrats, some of whom were against the bill because it would have meant W would have signed it and got the credit.

The reality is a little more complicated than what you've set forth.

Turd, as you say, or not, it was something that Republicans will never get again.  You mentioned LULAC.  They were upset over the possibility that it would pass and give Republicans everything they ever wanted.  Dems who voted against cloture were either concerned about reelection or as with LULAC, couldn't believe Reid put something like that on the floor.

So once again, what was in the bill that conflicted with your earlier concerns?  How much better off are we today, now that Obama has likely already essentially legalized about 5 million, regardless of their criminal history?

[mystery-ak]

Let's dispense with the name calling please!

[MACVSOG68]

Let's dispense with the name calling please!

Who was name calling?

[GourmetDan]

Hispanic Americans and Latino Americans (Spanish: hispanos [isˈpanos], latinos) are an ethnolinguistic group of Americans with genealogical origins in the countries of Latin America and Spain.[5][6][7] More generally it includes all persons in the United States who self-identify as Hispanic or Latino whether fully or partially. Hispanics form an ethnicity sharing a language (Spanish) and cultural heritage, rather than a race.

Which is consistent with what I posted...

"The U.S. Census Bureau defines the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American (except for Brazil), or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race" and states that Hispanics or Latinos can be of any race, any ancestry, any ethnicity."

And means that Ted Cruz and Marc Rubio are Hispanic from their Cuban origin and insisting "They're Cuban, not Hispanic" (which is where all this started) is simply wrong.

They're Cuban, not Hispanic.

[Relic]

More generally it includes all persons in the United States who self-identify as Hispanic or Latino whether fully or partially.

I guess that means that I am Hispanic if I want to be?

And means that Ted Cruz and Marc Rubio are Hispanic from their Cuban origin and insisting "They're Cuban, not Hispanic" (which is where all this started) is simply wrong.

Isn't that a little like calling George Zimmerman a white Hispanic? Those that lean left tend to bend things as they see fit.

[GourmetDan]

I guess that means that I am Hispanic if I want to be?

If Bruce Jenner can be a woman, you can be anything you want big guy.

Isn't that a little like calling George Zimmerman a white Hispanic? Those that lean left tend to bend things as they see fit.

Don't think so.  The U.S. Census Bureau includes Cubans in their definition of Hispanics...