Trump brings birther charge against Cruz

[mystery-ak]

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/236651-trump-cruz-faces-hurdle-for-canadian-birthplace

March 23, 2015, 04:17 pm
Trump brings birther charge against Cruz
By Ben Kamisar

Real estate tycoon Donald Trump cast doubt Monday on whether Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) can run for president, because Cruz was born in Canada.

"It’s a hurdle; somebody could certainly look at it very seriously," Trump said during a phone interview Monday on My Fox New York.

"He was born in Canada. If you know and when we all studied our history lessons, you are supposed to be born in this country, so I just don't know how the courts will rule on this."
Trump, who says he is exploring a bid for president in 2016, was part of the "birther" movement that questioned President Obama's birth place, as well as the veracity of his birth certificate. He recently took credit for getting Obama to release his birth certificate while speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference in February.

After flirting with a 2012 presidential bid, Trump has announced an exploratory committee for 2016 and says he will not renew his contract for his TV show, "The Apprentice" on NBC. 

Cruz confirmed his bid for president on Monday morning during a speech at Liberty University.

“It’s going to take a new generation of courageous conservatives to help make America great again, and I’m ready to stand with you to lead the fight," he said in a video touting the speech.

Trump claimed he had come up with Cruz's line about making America great again and questioned whether he should have secured the rights to it ahead of the 2016 campaign.

"The line of 'Make America great again,' the phrase, that was mine, I came up with it about a year ago, and I kept using it, and everybody's now using it, they are all loving it," Trump said.

"I don’t know I guess I should copyright it, maybe I have copyrighted it."

[Right_in_Virginia]

My (limited) understanding is that Cruz's mother is a natural born American citizen.  Is this sufficient to qualify him as the same?

[mystery-ak]

My (limited) understanding is that Cruz's mother is a natural born American citizen.  Is this sufficient to qualify him as the same?

It was for Obama

[Dexter]

I don't understand why people waste their time listening to what this guy has to say.

[truth_seeker]

It was for Obama

Obama was supposedly born in the USA, Cruz was not.

Raises a legitimate question PARTICULARLY since robust self-identifying conservatives made so much over it, enlisting none other than the Honorable Orly Taitz, Esq. and citing Swiss authority Emmerich de Vattel, writing in French, about Britain, before the American Constitution was adopted.

Concerning Cruz' citizenship, the Republicans will get the "our turn now," treatment from democrats . And it will hurt Cruz.

[ABX]

My (limited) understanding is that Cruz's mother is a natural born American citizen.  Is this sufficient to qualify him as the same?

Per the original definition, yes. Natural born = being born a citizen versus naturalized.
With the Obama birther issue (and McCain before that) there has been a lot of static with people pulling foreign documents or varied opinions to stretch the definition to mean both parents are citizens and born on US soil. If the founders intended it, they wouldn't have written otherwise in the Naturalization Act of 1795. The same people who wrote 'natural born citizen' in the Constitution defined it in that act as being born a citizen, period.

Either way, Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to make such definitions so if they see fit to change it to 2 parents, US soil only, then they can do that.

[ABX]

Obama was supposedly born in the USA, Cruz was not.

Raises a legitimate question PARTICULARLY since robust self-identifying conservatives made so much over it, enlisting none other than the Honorable Orly Taitz, Esq. and citing Swiss authority Emmerich de Vattel, writing in French, about Britain, before the American Constitution was adopted.

Concerning Cruz' citizenship, the Republicans will get the "our turn now," treatment from democrats . And it will hurt Cruz.

The funny part is before all this, Orly was a democrat. The whole birther thing started with the Democrats going after McCain due to his Canal Zone birth. Then, it was Hillary supporter Phil Berg who filed the first Natural Born lawsuits against Obama.

[jmyrlefuller]

Obama was supposedly born in the USA, Cruz was not.

Raises a legitimate question PARTICULARLY since robust self-identifying conservatives made so much over it, enlisting none other than the Honorable Orly Taitz, Esq. and citing Swiss authority Emmerich de Vattel, writing in French, about Britain, before the American Constitution was adopted.

Concerning Cruz' citizenship, the Republicans will get the "our turn now," treatment from democrats . And it will hurt Cruz.

There is one potential out: one of the accusations from the birthers to get around the issue of Obama's mother being an American citizen was that Obama's mother was a teenage mother and that, SUPPOSEDLY, under such law she was too young to impart automatic birthright citizenship on her son if he was not born on American soil. (That, of course, assumes Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.) Cruz's mother was certainly of legal age.

As for me, I'm hoping for Walker (I believe in the whole "join or die" premise; best possible candidate who can reach the most possible people without compromising on the most important issues). But I never bought into the whole birther premise. Natural born citizen is a pretty straightforward phrase.

[libertybele]

Is it ok to call Trump a sniveling, whiny, insignificant, little twit?

[ABX]

Is it ok to call Trump a sniveling, whiny, insignificant, little twit?

As long as you include 'bad hairpiece, bankruptcy troll, eminent domain liberal puke, attention whore' in that description.

[Luis Gonzalez]

There is one potential out: one of the accusations from the birthers to get around the issue of Obama's mother being an American citizen was that Obama's mother was a teenage mother and that, SUPPOSEDLY, under such law she was too young to impart automatic birthright citizenship on her son if he was not born on American soil. (That, of course, assumes Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.) Cruz's mother was certainly of legal age.

As for me, I'm hoping for Walker (I believe in the whole "join or die" premise; best possible candidate who can reach the most possible people without compromising on the most important issues). But I never bought into the whole birther premise. Natural born citizen is a pretty straightforward phrase.

You almost had that right.

Prevailing law at the time of Obama's birth established that citizenship could only transfer from Ann Dunham to Barry if she had resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. Ann Dunham was 18 when Barry was born, so she couldn't have resided in the US for five years after her sixteenth birthday.

The argument qualifying Obama for natural citizen status is that he was born in Hawaii, and since the XIV Amendment says that anyone born on US soil is a citizen, we've come to accept a lower standard for the term "natural born citizen" to jus soli citizenship as opposed to the jus sanguinis requirement that I believe the Framers intended when stressing that the POTUS needed to be something beyond just born on US soil.

According to those who use the XIV Amendment to define what constitutes a natural born citizen, Arnold Schwarzenegger and any child of any illegal alien born on US soil meets the Constitutional requirement for the office of POTUS.

[libertybele]

He is eligible; Trump is just trying to get some attention. It'll be short lived, just like his bid for the presidency.  Do you really think Cruz would run if he wasn't qualified?  he is a conservative constitutionalist and he memorized a shortened mnemonic version of the Constitution when he was a teenager.  Give me a break.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/15/lawyers-say-canadian-born-cruz-eligible-to-run-for-president/

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/ted-cruz-rattles-off-favorite-part-of-the-constitution-tccnccpcc-pawn-momma-run.html/

[raml]

I thought the big problem with Obama was that to go to the schools he went to in Indonesia he had to become an citizen of a foreign country Indonesia and give up any other citizenship's he held and he did and so he no longer qualified because he wasn't a US citizen anymore. There still is not proof he was born on US soil either the birth certificate was not real that he showed. He was a foreign aid student so this tells it all plus he has no legitimate social security card either. Obama is and had been a complete phony Cruz is not but I would also prefer Walker as a candidate.

[MACVSOG68]

The argument qualifying Obama for natural citizen status is that he was born in Hawaii, and since the XIV Amendment says that anyone born on US soil is a citizen, we've come to accept a lower standard for the term "natural born citizen" to jus soli citizenship as opposed to the jus sanguinis requirement that I believe the Framers intended when stressing that the POTUS needed to be something beyond just born on US soil.

The "natural born citizen" clause was inserted into the Constitution to ensure that not only should future presidents be only those born here, but also to provide that anyone who attained citizenship here by the time of ratification would also be eligible for the presidency.  There has never been any evidence presented that the framers meant anything other that the simple distinction between born naturally in a country and legally naturalized.  Nor is there any evidence the officials at the time wouldn't have used the term "natural born citizen" in the same manner as "natural born subject", which provided citizenship for anyone born within the jurisdiction of England.  In fact Massachusetts continued using both terms interchangeably at least until 1800.

As for Cruz, he too is a natural born citizen since the laws have extended to having at least one citizen parent if born outside the jurisdiction of the US.  So while jus soli is the prevailing principle, US laws also embrace [jus sanguinis[/I] to account for citizens like Cruz.

As for Schwarzenegger, I believe he was born in Austria of Austrian parents, thus was naturalized and not qualified for the presidency.  The children of illegals born here do qualify per the 14th Amendment, but would have qualified in any case.  Hopefully they'll at least learn English before putting an exploratory committee together.

Already many of those who spent the past seven years going after Obama on his citizenship questions are now jumping through hoops to show that Cruz is qualified.  I guess it goes back to the old saying, where you sit is where you stand.

 

[Luis Gonzalez]

The "natural born citizen" clause was inserted into the Constitution to ensure that not only should future presidents be only those born here, but also to provide that anyone who attained citizenship here by the time of ratification would also be eligible for the presidency.  There has never been any evidence presented that the framers meant anything other that the simple distinction between born naturally in a country and legally naturalized.  Nor is there any evidence the officials at the time wouldn't have used the term "natural born citizen" in the same manner as "natural born subject", which provided citizenship for anyone born within the jurisdiction of England.  In fact Massachusetts continued using both terms interchangeably at least until 1800.

As for Cruz, he too is a natural born citizen since the laws have extended to having at least one citizen parent if born outside the jurisdiction of the US.  So while jus soli is the prevailing principle, US laws also embrace [jus sanguinis[/I] to account for citizens like Cruz.

As for Schwarzenegger, I believe he was born in Austria of Austrian parents, thus was naturalized and not qualified for the presidency.  The children of illegals born here do qualify per the 14th Amendment, but would have qualified in any case.  Hopefully they'll at least learn English before putting an exploratory committee together.

Already many of those who spent the past seven years going after Obama on his citizenship questions are now jumping through hoops to show that Cruz is qualified.  I guess it goes back to the old saying, where you sit is where you stand.

Not me.

Rubio doesn't meet the standard either.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The "natural born citizen" clause was inserted into the Constitution to ensure that not only should future presidents be only those born here, but also to provide that anyone who attained citizenship here by the time of ratification would also be eligible for the presidency.  There has never been any evidence presented that the framers meant anything other that the simple distinction between born naturally in a country and legally naturalized.  Nor is there any evidence the officials at the time wouldn't have used the term "natural born citizen" in the same manner as "natural born subject", which provided citizenship for anyone born within the jurisdiction of England.  In fact Massachusetts continued using both terms interchangeably at least until 1800.

As for Cruz, he too is a natural born citizen since the laws have extended to having at least one citizen parent if born outside the jurisdiction of the US.  So while jus soli is the prevailing principle, US laws also embrace [jus sanguinis[/I] to account for citizens like Cruz.

As for Schwarzenegger, I believe he was born in Austria of Austrian parents, thus was naturalized and not qualified for the presidency.  The children of illegals born here do qualify per the 14th Amendment, but would have qualified in any case.  Hopefully they'll at least learn English before putting an exploratory committee together.

Already many of those who spent the past seven years going after Obama on his citizenship questions are now jumping through hoops to show that Cruz is qualified.  I guess it goes back to the old saying, where you sit is where you stand.

US Constitution, Amendment XIV:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

If born here=natural born citizen and the Amendment says that born and naturalized are absolutely equal, and that no State shall abridge their privileges, then under your standard Arnold is as qualified as Cruz to be POTUS.

We've gone through this before, and I'm not moving an inch.

[ABX]

I thought the big problem with Obama was that to go to the schools he went to in Indonesia he had to become an citizen of a foreign country Indonesia and give up any other citizenship's he held and he did and so he no longer qualified because he wasn't a US citizen anymore. There still is not proof he was born on US soil either the birth certificate was not real that he showed. He was a foreign aid student so this tells it all plus he has no legitimate social security card either. Obama is and had been a complete phony Cruz is not but I would also prefer Walker as a candidate.

That's some of that internet static I have mentioned before. A foreign country can't remove your citizenship, nor can a parent take away the citizenship of a minor (he was something like 7-8 years old at the time they moved there). He may have been granted dual citizenship, but someone couldn't have removed his citizenship from him.

http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html
Note section F. Parents can't remove citizenship from minors. There is no indication anywhere he attempted to remove it himself nor was it granted (and doubtful a consulate would have let him act on his own and remove his own citizenship at that age, they would have told a little kid to bugger off).

[alicewonders]

That's some of that internet static I have mentioned before. A foreign country can't remove your citizenship, nor can a parent take away the citizenship of a minor (he was something like 7-8 years old at the time they moved there). He may have been granted dual citizenship, but someone couldn't have removed his citizenship from him.

http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html
Note section F. Parents can't remove citizenship from minors. There is no indication anywhere he attempted to remove it himself nor was it granted (and doubtful a consulate would have let him act on his own and remove his own citizenship at that age, they would have told a little kid to bugger off).

How about if he applied for financial aid in college as a "foreign" student?  Would he be able to do that as a US citizen?  I don't know that he did - no one knows, really.  I mean, those records have not been made public for some reason.

 

[MACVSOG68]

Not me.

Rubio doesn't meet the standard either.

Indeed you've been consistent throughout the debate on this.   Others have not.  I believe Congress would agree as they did with McCain.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Indeed you've been consistent throughout the debate on this.   Others have not.  I believe Congress would agree as they did with McCain.

I believe that Cruz being born in Canada doesn't impact his NBC status.

Here's the pertinent statute:



Cruz's mother Eleanor Elizabeth Darragh Wilson graduated from Rice in the 1950's and she was in her 30's when Ted was born.

The Cruz family moved to Canada on or about 1966, which means that (unlike Ann Dunham) she fulfilled the letter of the statute and passed citizenship on to Ted.

Cruz got his US citizenship jus sanguinis.

He's a constitutional Natural Born Citizen.

[MACVSOG68]

US Constitution, Amendment XIV:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

If born here=natural born citizen and the Amendment says that born and naturalized are absolutely equal, and that no State shall abridge their privileges, then under your standard Arnold is as qualified as Cruz to be POTUS.

We've gone through this before, and I'm not moving an inch.

Well so far to my knowledge, no one has brought a case that a naturalized citizen can be president.  You may be right, but it doesn't address the issue at hand.  The issue remains as it did with Obama, are those born here naturally natural born citizens?  We know they're citizens, and we know they were born here naturally, and we know they are under US jurisdiction.  Did the 14th Amendment keep a third class secret?

[Lando Lincoln]

Hello MAC. 

[MACVSOG68]

I believe that Cruz being born in Canada doesn't impact his NBC status.

Here's the pertinent statute:



Cruz's mother Eleanor Elizabeth Darragh Wilson graduated from Rice in the 1950's and she was in her 30's when Ted was born.

The Cruz family moved to Canada on or about 1966, which means that (unlike Ann Dunham) she fulfilled the letter of the statute and passed citizenship on to Ted.

Cruz got his US citizenship jus sanguinis.

He's a constitutional Natural Born Citizen.

I agree that the laws determining citizenship of those born outside US jurisdiction have varied since the first naturalization act, but that hasn't persuaded those who mix up the naturalization rules with the definition of a natural born citizen, and who insist that natural born citizenship can only be bestowed on those born of two US citizen parents, which just isn't the case.  I think with Cruz now in the race though, the very hard-core Obama citizenship opponents will now either soften their prior stance, or overlook it.  And as I said earlier, the framers accepted the English definition, but with the first naturalization act had to expand jus soli for those born outside of US jurisdiction.

[MACVSOG68]

Hello MAC. 

Hello my friend.   

[Fishrrman]

Whether you like him or not, Mr. Trump makes a point.

This "point" is going to be driven home by the democrats, as well:
"After all, if it was fair to attack obama as such, it's fair for us to respond in kind!"

And their toadies in the media will provide the biggest megaphone from the warehouse for the assault...