Author Topic: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer  (Read 3882 times)

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Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« on: December 19, 2014, 11:31:11 pm »
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/395104/sixteen-years-ago-quin-hillyer

 Sixteen Years Ago
By Quin Hillyer
December 19, 2014 2:39 PM



Sixteen years ago today, the House of Representatives impeached President Bill Clinton.

Let it be said that the House was right to do so. Clinton clearly committed “high crimes and misdemeanors.”

The House impeached Clinton not because he took advantage of his position of authority and degraded the Oval Office by having sexual relations with an intern. Clinton was impeached because he manifestly, inarguably perjured himself in sworn testimony to officers of the law, and he took several actions to obstruct justice (and, in effect, to suborn perjury by others). Most directly, the case in question involved a sexual-harassment lawsuit by Paula Corbin Jones against Clinton. Sexual harassment, according to all of Clinton’s allies on the Left, was a horrendous crime — the crime du jour – that merited serious punishment. The suit contained plenty of substance. The U.S. Supreme Court, in a unanimous decision, ruled that the case should go forward while Clinton was still president.

The reason special prosecutor Kenneth Starr was handling the Lewinsky matter at all was because Attorney General Janet Reno petitioned a court to expand Starr’s jurisdiction to cover the issue, because of serious allegations of witness tampering and obstruction of justice. It is worth noting that these allegations mirrored similar, highly believable allegations in the ongoing Whitewater investigation. It was part of a pattern and practice of obstruction of justice, across a broad swath of issues and involving criminal activity of various sorts by a rogue’s gallery of close Clinton associates. The pattern and practice quite arguably demonstrated a mens rea – a criminal mindset — for what was not an isolated incident of sexual misconduct, but rather an interlocking series of scandals in which many of the same players engaged in similar activities to cover up wrongdoing. It included a pattern of misusing protective details, and allegedly of threats to a series of women.

It was the interlocking nature of so many of the scandals that led Starr and, more important, even Reno to decide there was a legitimate nexus between Starr’s broad investigation into what was known by the shorthand of “Whitewater” (even though it included many more scandals than just the failed land deal) and the obstruction of justice in the Jones suit. The practice of cover-ups of sexual relationships, as alleged in the Jones suit, clearly was followed in the Lewinsky affair, which was therefore quite evidently relevant to the Jones suit.

When the president perjures himself — not just to cover up an “affair,” but to protect himself from liability for particularly egregious sexual harassment — that is a crime. When he suborns other government officials — other people supposedly there to serve the public — to obstruct justice in order to protect his own skin, that is a crime.

Clinton did not just “lie about sex.” Clinton lied under sworn oath, before a grand jury, about a practice of sexual misdeeds that included fairly ample evidence of sexual harassment (and, frankly, worse: see the story of the rape of Juanita Broaddrick). It included highly believable accounts of sexual assault in the Oval Office itself.

When someone uses the power of the highest office in the land to obstruct justice, to suborn others to do the same, and at least allegedly to threaten others who would blow the whistle on all sorts of misdeeds, those are impeachable offenses.

The House was right to impeach Clinton. The Senate should have removed him from office.
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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 02:15:08 am »
Don't take on the king unless you're sure you can win.


Whether it was technically correct for the House to impeach Clinton is irrelevant; the fact of the matter is it was the stupidest thing to do because they didn't already have the votes in the Senate needed to convict.

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 02:18:57 am »
Don't take on the king unless you're sure you can win.


Whether it was technically correct for the House to impeach Clinton is irrelevant; the fact of the matter is it was the stupidest thing to do because they didn't already have the votes in the Senate needed to convict.

Yeah?  Well, at this moment in history, it's the LAST principled thing Congress did to go after an unlawful President.  Gonna be tough to spin reality.

Can't wait until the new Congress is seated!  Like a kid going to sleep Christmas Eve.    :laugh:
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 03:31:57 am »
this is the quintessential example of the average person not knowing wtf the real story was/is.  Walk into a supermarket, bar, barber shop, etc and ask what this episode was all about.  99% will say it was just about sex or, who cares if he got a b.j. in the Oval Office.  Instead, it has everything to do with President William Jefferson Clinton:

Quote
manifestly, inarguably perjured himself in sworn testimony to officers of the law, and he took several actions to obstruct justice (and, in effect, to suborn perjury by others). Most directly, the case in question involved a sexual-harassment lawsuit by Paula Corbin Jones.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 03:35:32 am »
Can't wait until the new Congress is seated!  Like a kid going to sleep Christmas Eve.    :laugh:

A lot are already condemning the results since the election.  For some, it won't change after they are.
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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 01:11:23 pm »
A lot are already condemning the results since the election.  For some, it won't change after they are.

For sure.  Stupid me thought we'd all be looking forward to January and start talking about what the new Congress was going to take on.  Instead, after the greatest gains in 80 years, we have already condemned the GOP to the "dustbin of history" if any Republican who might have broad appeal in 2016 is nominated.

Go figure... :shrug:
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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2014, 01:34:14 pm »
For sure.  Stupid me thought we'd all be looking forward to January and start talking about what the new Congress was going to take on.  Instead, after the greatest gains in 80 years, we have already condemned the GOP to the "dustbin of history" if any Republican who might have broad appeal in 2016 is nominated.

Go figure... :shrug:
When was the last time ANY Republican had broad appeal?

The only ones with broad appeal anymore are the Democrats, because the people of America find stupid stuff like the homosexual agenda, witch hunts against GMO's, and recreational marijuana "appealing."
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 02:01:54 pm »
When was the last time ANY Republican had broad appeal?

The only ones with broad appeal anymore are the Democrats, because the people of America find stupid stuff like the homosexual agenda, witch hunts against GMO's, and recreational marijuana "appealing."

Well, to be sure, some on the far right also have a homosexual agenda, an abortion agenda, a deportation agenda, and so forth.  I doubt that constitutes broad appeal.  Since most Americans actually want Congress to work together to address the big issues, you figure out who might and might not have broad appeal in 2016.
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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2014, 05:38:25 pm »
Well, to be sure, some on the far right also have a homosexual agenda, an abortion agenda, a deportation agenda, and so forth.  I doubt that constitutes broad appeal.  Since most Americans actually want Congress to work together to address the big issues, you figure out who might and might not have broad appeal in 2016.

I see a pretty deep problem here, MAC.  You have just said that the slaughter of millions of babies for convenience isn't a "big issue."

I strongly differ.
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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 09:01:42 pm »
I see a pretty deep problem here, MAC.  You have just said that the slaughter of millions of babies for convenience isn't a "big issue."

I strongly differ.

Actually I didn't say that at all.  But of course you know that; you responded to what I said.  Anyway, the big issues the American people want addressed include the economy, jobs, federal debt, general dissatisfaction with the government, immigration and healthcare according to the most recent Gallup poll.  Abortion comes in at less than 1/2 of one percent.  The people seem to think there are a lot bigger issues facing the government than abortion.  Several other recent polls support those priorities.

I know, I know.  Some here just don't believe in polls at all.  That's fine, but in their absence, what evidence do you have that abortion is a major issue for most Americans?

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2014, 12:50:38 am »
Actually I didn't say that at all.  But of course you know that; you responded to what I said.  Anyway, the big issues the American people want addressed include the economy, jobs, federal debt, general dissatisfaction with the government, immigration and healthcare according to the most recent Gallup poll.  Abortion comes in at less than 1/2 of one percent.  The people seem to think there are a lot bigger issues facing the government than abortion.  Several other recent polls support those priorities.

I know, I know.  Some here just don't believe in polls at all.  That's fine, but in their absence, what evidence do you have that abortion is a major issue for most Americans?

You had to squirm quite a bit to get out of admitting you said what you said.

Kudos.   **nononono*
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I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2014, 01:05:13 am »
You had to squirm quite a bit to get out of admitting you said what you said.

Kudos.   **nononono*

I  tried to be nice, but BULLSHIT!  Tell me where I said:
Quote
"You have just said that the slaughter of millions of babies for convenience isn't a "big issue."

I don't squirm for anybody here.  I answer questions, which many drive-by shooters here fail to do.  So once again, tell me where I said that or...ST...Oh, never mind.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2014, 10:56:13 pm »
I  tried to be nice, but BULLSHIT!  Tell me where I said:
I don't squirm for anybody here.  I answer questions, which many drive-by shooters here fail to do.  So once again, tell me where I said that or...ST...Oh, never mind.


I'll answer your questions when you calm down.  (And stop transferring your anger at bunches of people to a single person. 

It's unseemly.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2014, 12:05:40 am »

I'll answer your questions when you calm down.  (And stop transferring your anger at bunches of people to a single person. 

It's unseemly.

With all due respect, it's also unseemly, and certainly less than conservative to throw a completely false charge on someone for no apparent reason than to simply put them on the defensive.  It's the main tool of the left.  Charge someone with being a racist or a homophobe and put them on the defensive.  You know as well as I do, I said nothing of the kind here.  Whether you realize it or not, it's a typical drive-by.  If you really wanted to know my feelings on abortion, you should have asked.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2014, 12:12:39 am »
With all due respect, it's also unseemly, and certainly less than conservative to throw a completely false charge on someone for no apparent reason than to simply put them on the defensive.  It's the main tool of the left.  Charge someone with being a racist or a homophobe and put them on the defensive.  You know as well as I do, I said nothing of the kind here.  Whether you realize it or not, it's a typical drive-by.  If you really wanted to know my feelings on abortion, you should have asked.

I'm no "drive-by" and you know it.  And comparing me with liberals is empty-headed.

Here's what you said.....

Quote
Well, to be sure, some on the far right also have a homosexual agenda, an abortion agenda, a deportation agenda, and so forth.  I doubt that constitutes broad appeal.  Since most Americans actually want Congress to work together to address the big issues, you figure out who might and might not have broad appeal in 2016.

You may not realize the implication of your statements, but you said "some on the far right have an abortion agenda" and that "most Americans" want Congress to address "the big issues."

That means, whether you realized you were saying it or not, that you don't believe abortion is a "big issue."

I pointed that out and said I disagreed.

You got mad.

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2014, 01:24:38 am »
Quote
That means, whether you realized you were saying it or not, that you don't believe abortion is a "big issue."

I pointed that out and said I disagreed.

What I didn't say was:
Quote
"You have just said that the slaughter of millions of babies for convenience isn't a "big issue."

You can disagree whether or not abortion is a big issue for the voters, but don't change what I said to assist your own agenda.

I gave you specifics in how the general public views abortion with respect to other issues.  You may disagree with the polls as some here do, but if you believe the public views it differently then give me some evidence.

Abortion issues run the gamut from abortion on demand under all circumstances to abortion being illegal under all circumstances.  A lot of Americans believe that abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, but yet very few believe it's a major issue of importance in this Nation at this time, unless you have evidence to the contrary.
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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2014, 02:11:36 am »
I see a pretty deep problem here, MAC.  You have just said that the slaughter of millions of babies for convenience isn't a "big issue."

I strongly differ.

You can use all the rhetorical tricks you want, but the fact remains that for most Americans the "big issue" with respect to abortion is the constant threat that it will be made illegal if only the right - and, therefore, by extension the GOP - can get into power.

Abortion will not, and cannot, be banned, and by arguing against that immovable object, the right - and the GOP when it gives in to the right - simply cedes the entire issue to the control of the democrats/liberals.

Whether one likes it or not, that is reality, and it will never change.

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2014, 05:35:37 pm »
What I didn't say was:
You can disagree whether or not abortion is a big issue for the voters, but don't change what I said to assist your own agenda.

I gave you specifics in how the general public views abortion with respect to other issues.  You may disagree with the polls as some here do, but if you believe the public views it differently then give me some evidence.

Abortion issues run the gamut from abortion on demand under all circumstances to abortion being illegal under all circumstances.  A lot of Americans believe that abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, but yet very few believe it's a major issue of importance in this Nation at this time, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Your rhetoric is fascinating, MAC.  Are you pretending that I have "an agenda" and you don't?

This isn't about polls.  (And I don't fit into your gross generalization about people who are anti-poll, so don't go there again).

In your first post you said that abortion wasn't a big issue.  It is.  It's not just some extremist agenda (or whatever you think it is).

Also....  I didn't say a thing about degrees in opinions about what abortion should be legal.  But the fact of the matter is that millions of babies have been killed for convenience, and that's a big issue.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2014, 05:39:39 pm »
You can use all the rhetorical tricks you want, but the fact remains that for most Americans the "big issue" with respect to abortion is the constant threat that it will be made illegal if only the right - and, therefore, by extension the GOP - can get into power.

Abortion will not, and cannot, be banned, and by arguing against that immovable object, the right - and the GOP when it gives in to the right - simply cedes the entire issue to the control of the democrats/liberals.

Whether one likes it or not, that is reality, and it will never change.

It can, and will change with proper education and adequate information.  The more people know about what abortion really is, the more they disagree with it.  The more they realize how human a "fetus" is, the less they want them to be slaughtered.

The left has been very successful in controlling the debate, calling people who believe in the sanctity of life right-wing extremists, denying young mothers information, taking away the rights of parents, keeping medical safeguards away from abortion mills, exposing the agenda of Planned Parenthood, and keeping the truth from the American people.

I'm not afraid of the debate.  But the left is scared to death of it, because they don't want the truth coming out.

That's why, your advice to the contrary, people like me aren't going to shut up about the issue.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2014, 07:39:17 pm »
Your rhetoric is fascinating, MAC.  Are you pretending that I have "an agenda" and you don't?

This isn't about polls.  (And I don't fit into your gross generalization about people who are anti-poll, so don't go there again).

In your first post you said that abortion wasn't a big issue.  It is.  It's not just some extremist agenda (or whatever you think it is).

Also....  I didn't say a thing about degrees in opinions about what abortion should be legal.  But the fact of the matter is that millions of babies have been killed for convenience, and that's a big issue.

I'm still waiting ma'am.  Where did I say that?  Abortion isn't an issue Americans want to deal with.  It may be for you, but not for the vast majority of people.  And in fact, for even the one half of one percent who consider it an issue of importance, I'd have to guess that at least half of that tiny group want to see abortion rights expanded.

I really don't know how many abortions have been done for convenience versus other issues, such as rape, incest, child sex, medical or other reasons.  I know for some here, it wouldn't matter.  To them, it's all for convenience and should be banned.  I suggested earlier you have no idea of my personal position on the subject, yet you lied about what I said and then tried to blow off my explanation as "rhetorical tricks" and "squirming".

What you were doing is exactly what the left does in trying to silence conservatives.  I guess it's pretty much the tactic of both wings.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2014, 07:42:14 pm »
Quote
I'm not afraid of the debate.

 :pondering:
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2014, 07:48:23 pm »
I'm still waiting ma'am.  Where did I say that?  Abortion isn't an issue Americans want to deal with.  It may be for you, but not for the vast majority of people.  And in fact, for even the one half of one percent who consider it an issue of importance, I'd have to guess that at least half of that tiny group want to see abortion rights expanded.

I really don't know how many abortions have been done for convenience versus other issues, such as rape, incest, child sex, medical or other reasons.  I know for some here, it wouldn't matter.  To them, it's all for convenience and should be banned.  I suggested earlier you have no idea of my personal position on the subject, yet you lied about what I said and then tried to blow off my explanation as "rhetorical tricks" and "squirming".

What you were doing is exactly what the left does in trying to silence conservatives.  I guess it's pretty much the tactic of both wings.

I didn't lie about anything, and you know it.

You didn't like what I said, because I was reacting against your strong implication was that it was "extremists" with an "agenda" who cared about abortion, and Republicans should ignore the issue.

I said I disagreed, and I do.

Again........ I am NOT afraid of the debate.  It is the left who has tried to silence the pro-life argument.

(And stop bringing up your irritation with other people on this forum in this discussion with me.  I'm not in some group.  I'm an individual, and would appreciate not being grouped into your "I don't like what your wing says" generalizations).
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 08:00:11 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2014, 09:00:53 pm »
I say MAC won this discussion.

It is crooked debating, to rephrase your opponents words into something he did not say, mean or intend.


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Offline musiclady

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2014, 10:53:24 pm »
I say MAC won this discussion.

It is crooked debating, to rephrase your opponents words into something he did not say, mean or intend.

That's because you agree with him, and not me, not because anything I did was "crooked."

Actually, the idea that I was being dishonest is preposterous.

But, no matter.  Time for family and fun.

Merry Christmas, all.   ^-^
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Sixteen Years Ago.... By Quin Hillyer
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2014, 11:03:40 pm »
That's because you agree with him, and not me, not because anything I did was "crooked."

Actually, the idea that I was being dishonest is preposterous.

But, no matter.  Time for family and fun.

Merry Christmas, all.   ^-^

You weren't dishonest; you lied. 

Have a nice Christmas.
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