Author Topic: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch  (Read 12972 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #150 on: April 14, 2014, 12:52:21 pm »
I respectfully disagree.  This may be exactly what's necessary to cut the dead wood from the legislatures.  People have long memories after situations like this.  It hangs with you like bile.

You're going to cut "dead wood from the legislatures" based on the behavior of an individual who doesn't recognize the supremacy of either his State's or his nation's Constitution, who will not abide by laws and Court mandates that have been in effect for decades and who claims title to territories whose ownership has been settled for 166 years?

The Constitution of Nevada states that:

Quote
ORDINANCE

      Slavery prohibited; freedom of religious worship; disclaimer of public lands. [Effective until the date Congress consents to amendment or a legal determination is made that such consent is not necessary.]In obedience to the requirements of an act of the Congress of the United States, approved March twenty-first, A.D. eighteen hundred and sixty-four, to enable the people of Nevada to form a constitution and state government, this convention, elected and convened in obedience to said enabling act, do ordain as follows, and this ordinance shall be irrevocable, without the consent of the United States and the people of the State of Nevada:
      First. That there shall be in this state neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, otherwise than in the punishment for crimes, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.
      Second. That perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured, and no inhabitant of said state shall ever be molested, in person or property, on account of his or her mode of religious worship.
      Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States

Bundy refuses to recognize that as law.

Article IV, Section 3 of he Constitution of the United States says that:

Quote
The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States;

Bundy refuses to recognize the power of the Federal government over the land that the Federal government owns.

So when you do cut all that dead wood, and you do set new laws in place and when that next individual comes along and decides that he doesn't want to abide by your new laws and that he will not respect either Constitutions or Court mandates, what will you do?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline evadR

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #151 on: April 14, 2014, 12:56:00 pm »
This is actually sad.

There is such built up animus for the government, so much distrust and such pent up frustration that people are willing to believe any story that paints the government in a bad light, even when the facts do not support the memes. As the news circulate through the blogosphere, the story begins to take a life of its own, and suddenly we have protected turtles, Harry Reid and the Chinese and facts no longer matter.

I think that reason stops at a certain point, and people don't care whether Bundy is right or wrong. They just want to fight the government.


It's dangerous times that we live in.
So true.
It defines my feelings pretty well with the exception that I don't want to fight my government, I just want it to return to a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 12:57:42 pm by evadR² »
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Offline olde north church

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #152 on: April 14, 2014, 01:07:28 pm »
You're going to cut "dead wood from the legislatures" based on the behavior of an individual who doesn't recognize the supremacy of either his State's or his nation's Constitution, who will not abide by laws and Court mandates that have been in effect for decades and who claims title to territories whose ownership has been settled for 166 years?

The Constitution of Nevada states that:

Bundy refuses to recognize that as law.

Article IV, Section 3 of he Constitution of the United States says that:

Bundy refuses to recognize the power of the Federal government over the land that the Federal government owns.

So when you do cut all that dead wood, and you do set new laws in place and when that next individual comes along and decides that he doesn't want to abide by your new laws and that he will not respect either Constitutions or Court mandates, what will you do?

I don't mean this man or his situation specifically.  It's like an ear worm.  It reminds them of their trouble at DMV, a snotty receptionist at the town hall or their cousin Edwin's audit.  It's like a hemorrhoidal flare up.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline oldno7

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #153 on: April 14, 2014, 01:13:30 pm »
 What is actually sad is that an agency of un elected officials can write laws willy nilly AND  courts  uphold said laws!

Believing this agency(blm) does this for the benefit of We The People, is naive.

Knowing who the blm answers to is paramount.

blm---Dept of Interior--Secretary of the interior(Presidents Cabinet)--President

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

We all know that no administration would use any agency to their political advantage....



Offline oldno7

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #154 on: April 14, 2014, 01:43:23 pm »
 On a related subject---

Who would ever think that Taxation Without Representation, might cause a war??

Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #155 on: April 14, 2014, 01:44:36 pm »
What is actually sad is that an agency of un elected officials can write laws willy nilly AND  courts  uphold said laws!

Believing this agency(blm) does this for the benefit of We The People, is naive.

Knowing who the blm answers to is paramount.

blm---Dept of Interior--Secretary of the interior(Presidents Cabinet)--President

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

We all know that no administration would use any agency to their political advantage....

The BLM reminds me of the EPA.  What is the difference?

Offline EC

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #156 on: April 14, 2014, 01:49:26 pm »
The BLM reminds me of the EPA.  What is the difference?

The BLM originally had a decent purpose.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #157 on: April 14, 2014, 01:53:15 pm »
The BLM reminds me of the EPA.  What is the difference?

The difference is Article IV, Section 3 of he Constitution of the United States.

I've said that we need a new Constitution, but everyone disagrees.

We need a new Constitution correcting all the loopholes and firmly restricting the powers of the Executive. We need to set irrevocable term limits in place for every position in the Federal government, and we need to make  the action of even trying to change that BY ANYONE IN ANY BRANCH OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (Courts included) reason for immediate impeachment if not treason.

That's just a start.
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Online Fishrrman

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #158 on: April 15, 2014, 01:20:57 am »
evadR2 wrote above:
[[ It defines my feelings pretty well with the exception that I don't want to fight my government, I just want it to return to a government of the people, by the people and for the people. ]]

The conondrum is that we will never have that "return to a government of the people, by the people and for the people" until the people are willing to engage in an open "fight" with that government.

It's not going to happen otherwise.

I sense that there are many here on this forum who share this sentiment.

How many tyrannies have voluntarily relinquished power?

A quote for you, courtesy of George Orwell:
 “The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.”
(from "1984")

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #159 on: April 15, 2014, 04:04:30 am »
evadR2 wrote above:
[[ It defines my feelings pretty well with the exception that I don't want to fight my government, I just want it to return to a government of the people, by the people and for the people. ]]

The conondrum is that we will never have that "return to a government of the people, by the people and for the people" until the people are willing to engage in an open "fight" with that government.

It's not going to happen otherwise.

I sense that there are many here on this forum who share this sentiment.

How many tyrannies have voluntarily relinquished power?

A quote for you, courtesy of George Orwell:
 “The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.”
(from "1984")

Let's say that we do that.

Let's say that we spill the blood, burn the cities, raze the fields and do all that it will take to fight that open fight.

Let's say that we win, and that we set things right.

That we set the Constitution in place, and that we set our institutions rights. The Courts, Congress, everything.

Then we get a man who will not abide by established laws (Both the Constitutions of the State of Nevada and the US Constitution clearly establish who the pieces of land in question belong to) will not recognize treaties made by the United States under its Constitutional powers set in place via Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of said Constitution  (Treaty of Hidalgo) will not recognize the Supremacy of his own State's Constitution when it clearly states who the land belongs to (Nevada Constitution of 1864), and who has the constitutional authority to manage them (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 U.S. Constitution), and that when that man takes his dispute to the Courts, the Courts find that he is wrong, and that he must abide by the laws and institutions that we shed blood to set in place, yet this man ignores every legal order issued by the Courts, refuses to abide by all authority, and threatens to do violence to anyone who tries to execute the Court orders.

Would you let that stand?

What good would your Constitution be then? 

Bundy is wrong.

He is dead wrong.

The Founders themselves put down Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion because they understood that once founded, the nation could not survive rebellions stemming from anti-government sentiment justified or not justified.

If you all really want to get behind someone, look up E. Wayne Hage and show his family some support.

Not this Bundy guy.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 04:05:43 am by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline pjohns

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #160 on: April 15, 2014, 06:10:27 am »
I would imagine that the feds simply did not want another Waco or Ruby Ridge, to serve as a rallying cry against a heavy-handed government; so they simply backed off (and backed down)...

Offline olde north church

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #161 on: April 15, 2014, 09:45:23 am »
I would imagine that the feds simply did not want another Waco or Ruby Ridge, to serve as a rallying cry against a heavy-handed government; so they simply backed off (and backed down)...

Backed off?  More likely realized there are many ways to cook a chicken.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #162 on: April 15, 2014, 12:28:08 pm »
I would imagine that the feds simply did not want another Waco or Ruby Ridge, to serve as a rallying cry against a heavy-handed government; so they simply backed off (and backed down)...

Being in violation of two separate Court orders, Cliven Bundy may be about to find himself in jail.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #163 on: April 15, 2014, 12:31:03 pm »
On a related subject---

Who would ever think that Taxation Without Representation, might cause a war??

Cliven Bundy has had more than his fair share of representation and more than his fair share of due process.  If you wish to analogize to the American Revolution, then Cliven Bundy is firmly in the British camp, not the American camp.

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #164 on: April 15, 2014, 12:36:47 pm »
Let's say that we do that.

Let's say that we spill the blood, burn the cities, raze the fields and do all that it will take to fight that open fight.

Let's say that we win, and that we set things right.

That we set the Constitution in place, and that we set our institutions rights. The Courts, Congress, everything.

Then we get a man who will not abide by established laws (Both the Constitutions of the State of Nevada and the US Constitution clearly establish who the pieces of land in question belong to) will not recognize treaties made by the United States under its Constitutional powers set in place via Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of said Constitution  (Treaty of Hidalgo) will not recognize the Supremacy of his own State's Constitution when it clearly states who the land belongs to (Nevada Constitution of 1864), and who has the constitutional authority to manage them (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 U.S. Constitution), and that when that man takes his dispute to the Courts, the Courts find that he is wrong, and that he must abide by the laws and institutions that we shed blood to set in place, yet this man ignores every legal order issued by the Courts, refuses to abide by all authority, and threatens to do violence to anyone who tries to execute the Court orders.

Would you let that stand?

What good would your Constitution be then? 

Bundy is wrong.

He is dead wrong.

The Founders themselves put down Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion because they understood that once founded, the nation could not survive rebellions stemming from anti-government sentiment justified or not justified.

If you all really want to get behind someone, look up E. Wayne Hage and show his family some support.

Not this Bundy guy.


Shay's Rebellion is actually a very apt analogy

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #165 on: April 15, 2014, 01:51:22 pm »

Shay's Rebellion is actually a very apt analogy

The US Constitution was born, to a great degree, as a result Shay's Rebellion.

The framers realized that the Articles of Confederation lacked "teeth" and that a better structure was needed to maintain order and stabilize the nation, so in effect, the framers reacted to Shay's Rebellion by creating force vis à vis the ability to react to internal strife. That force created by the Founders as a reaction to a rebellion by farmers angry at government taxation, is the Federal government.

So, what would the Framers do if they faced the Bundy Rebellion?

Convinced that the United States was "last verging to anarchy and confusion" a retired George Washington thundered "are your people... mad?" when receiving news via courier of the uprising in Massachusetts.

Washington then began corresponding with members of the nation's government urging them to address the rebellion and stop the rebels from closing Courts, defying the State militia, and threatening to revamp the State governments 

The rebels were defeated and Daniel Shays was tried in absentia (he fled) and sentenced to death for the crime of treason against the United States. He applied for amnesty and received a pardon.

He died drunk and broke in a Baltimore gutter.
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Offline olde north church

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #166 on: April 15, 2014, 02:08:38 pm »
Cliven Bundy has had more than his fair share of representation and more than his fair share of due process.  If you wish to analogize to the American Revolution, then Cliven Bundy is firmly in the British camp, not the American camp.

You don't leave fish to find fish.  This isn't a perfect situation but it is a point to rally.  Based upon OVERALL reaction against the feds, it's a start and a good one at that.  The fuse doesn't go in search of the match!
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #167 on: April 15, 2014, 02:10:55 pm »
You don't leave fish to find fish.  This isn't a perfect situation but it is a point to rally.  Based upon OVERALL reaction against the feds, it's a start and a good one at that.  The fuse doesn't go in search of the match!

 :beer:
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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #168 on: April 15, 2014, 02:13:02 pm »
You don't leave fish to find fish.  This isn't a perfect situation but it is a point to rally.  Based upon OVERALL reaction against the feds, it's a start and a good one at that.  The fuse doesn't go in search of the match!

as luis has pointed out, geo. washington would disagree with you.  shay's rebellion led to greater centralization and empowerment of the federal government; Bundy's rebellion - if that is what it comes to - will do the same.  That's a pretty stupid price to pay for defending a scofflaw.

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #169 on: April 15, 2014, 02:20:08 pm »

That's a pretty stupid price to pay for defending a scofflaw.


You misspelled "turtle".



"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline olde north church

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #170 on: April 15, 2014, 02:48:09 pm »
as luis has pointed out, geo. washington would disagree with you.  shay's rebellion led to greater centralization and empowerment of the federal government; Bundy's rebellion - if that is what it comes to - will do the same.  That's a pretty stupid price to pay for defending a scofflaw.

I'm not so sure centralization will be a consequence in this case.  It may be the perfect point for states to take some power back.  Who is better suited to react, respond and plan to conditions on the ground, a state agency or some agency suit in Washington?
This is like stopping Common Core or closing national monuments during the sequester.  People want their local lives back.  If played wisely, it can be a boon.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #171 on: April 15, 2014, 02:56:20 pm »
You misspelled "turtle".

Bundy's grazing permit was modified in 1993 in order to protect the turtle's habitat. Bundy refused to pay the fees for the modified permits and in turn his permit was cancelled. Bundy refuses to recognize the Federal government's authority over the land in question.

The turtle conservancy closed down sometime back due to lack of funds.

Bundy continued grazing cattle in the land for 20 years without paying any grazing fees.

Here is Cliven Bundy's description of what the conflict is all about, in his own words, from the Glenn Beck show:

Quote
http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/04/14/nevada-rancher-i-did-not-graze-my-cattle-on-united-states-property/

This morning on radio, Glenn spoke with Bundy about the escalating conflict and why Bundy has refused to pay grazing fees associated with his use of the public land.

“The story of Cliven Bundy, and his ranch in Nevada, is one that I think is captivating many Americans. And it may indeed go down in American history as  more than just a quick footnote. I hope that it would go down in history as a positive footnote. But it is one of those situations where we could face another Waco or another really bad situation, a Ruby Ridge,” Glenn said.

During the interview, Glenn tried to understand Bundy’s perspective on the dispute. Was this conflict over ranching and grazing fees? Or was it over an issue of state sovereignty or disarming the BLM?

Glenn said, “I have people that graze on my land. And there is national land behind my ranch as well. And I know if anybody runs cattle on that, they also have to pay for grazing fees. Grazing fees are normal. And you stopped paying them. Your daughter said you did pay them for a while and then you stopped paying them. There are some people that would say that you are, if I may quote, a ‘welfare rancher’ because you’re not paying the fees that other ranchers do have to pay.”

“Let’s make sure we get this straight. I would pay my grazing fees to the proper government and I did try to pay my grazing fees to the proper government. I do not have a contract with the United States because I will not sign that contract with the United States,” Bundy explained. “I have no contract. I did not graze my cattle on the United States property. And I would pay my grazing fees to the proper government.”

Glenn asked him to clarify since in the Nevada State Constitution that land Bundy’s cattle are grazing on was given over to the federal government.

Below is a transcript of Bundy’s explanation:

CLIVEN: Let’s talk about the — Glenn, I really want to talk about that because that’s very important.  You’re talking about the Enabling Act of the people of the territory of the state of Nevada.  And remember, in the — section of the Constitution, we’re talking about territories of Nevada.  Let me see if I can get that straight.  What it says, it says the United States Congress will have power to dispose of all rules and regulations within the territory.  Now, let’s think what we’re doing.  We’re talking about the territory of Nevada.  People of the territory of Nevada.  As they — they do not have the Constitution.  They’re within the territory and Congress had an unlimited power to make all the rules and regulations.  Okay.  The people of the territory petitioned the United States Congress to make this a state.  And they have a clouded title.  So in order to clear their title, they give up their public domain — forever.  It sounds terrible.  Forever?  But let me tell what you they had to do.  They had to give it up forever so Congress would have a clear title.
And what did Congress do?  It made a state of Nevada.  Which [indiscernible] a lot of them — quote Ed Presley here.  Here’s what Ed Presley said.  It doesn’t matter what happened before statehood.  What matters is what has happened at the moment of statehood.  Now, if you think about that in the second.  At the moment of statehood.  What happened?  At the moment of statehood the people of the territory become people of the United States with the Constitution with equal footing to the original 13 states.  They had boundaries around them, a state line.  And that boundary was divided into 17 subdivisions, which were county. I live in one of those counties: Clark County, Nevada.  And in that county, Clark County, Nevada, we elect our county commissioners, which is the closest to we the peoplend we elect the county sheriff and we pay him to do what? Protect our life, liberty and property.
I’m a citizen of that county. I abide by all the state laws.
Essentially, Bundy is saying this conflict isn’t inherently about grazing fees or water rights, but that he ultimately does not recognize the lands to be federal and the United States government or the BLM do not have jurisdiction on the land.

In effect, he refuses to abide by the Supreme Law of the land, the US Constitution, and he refuses to recognize his own State's Constitution which clearly states that the land in question belongs to the United States.

The man believes in nothing but his own law, and follows whichever law suits his purposes best.

Bundy's own worlds:

It doesn't matter what happened before statehood.  What matters is what has happened at the moment of statehood.

At the moment of statehood, the Constitution of Nevada said:

Quote
That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States.

so Bundy refuses to abide by ANY Constitution that he doesn't agree with.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 03:02:37 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Oceander

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #172 on: April 15, 2014, 03:00:52 pm »
I'm not so sure centralization will be a consequence in this case.  It may be the perfect point for states to take some power back.  Who is better suited to react, respond and plan to conditions on the ground, a state agency or some agency suit in Washington?
This is like stopping Common Core or closing national monuments during the sequester.  People want their local lives back.  If played wisely, it can be a boon.

On federal land?  State law enforcement has only as much jurisdiction on federal land as the federal government allows them to have.  As far as that is concerned there is nothing for the states to take back because the Constitution expressly gives the federal government paramount jurisdiction over federally-owned land.

If people want their local lives back then they ought not live them on federal lands.  If I don't like the rules my landlord puts in my lease I have two choices:  (a) find a new place to rent, or (b) buy my own place.  I do not - unless I'm Cliven Bundy - have the right to call out thousands of armed vigilantes to make my landlord back down so I can continue living in his house rent-free and without any regard for his rules.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #173 on: April 15, 2014, 03:05:19 pm »
I'm not so sure centralization will be a consequence in this case.  It may be the perfect point for states to take some power back.  Who is better suited to react, respond and plan to conditions on the ground, a state agency or some agency suit in Washington?
This is like stopping Common Core or closing national monuments during the sequester.  People want their local lives back.  If played wisely, it can be a boon.

Take what power back?

Quote
Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 U.S. Constitution:

The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

The State of Nevada never had power over the land in question.

Are you suggesting that we should overthrow the Constitution of the United States?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #174 on: April 15, 2014, 03:13:56 pm »
Here is a very good summary/opinion of of the Bundy issue.  I am only posting a partial, suggest you follow the link and read all of it.

Why You Should Be Sympathetic Toward Cliven Bundy

On Saturday, I wrote about the standoff at Bundy Ranch. That post drew a remarkable amount of traffic, even though, as I wrote then, I had not quite decided what to make of the story. Since then, I have continued to study the facts and have drawn some conclusions. Here they are.

First, it must be admitted that legally, Bundy doesn’t have a leg to stand on. The Bureau of Land Management has been charging him grazing fees since the early 1990s, which he has refused to pay. Further, BLM has issued orders limiting the area on which Bundy’s cows can graze and the number that can graze, and Bundy has ignored those directives. As a result, BLM has sued Bundy twice in federal court, and won both cases. In the second, more recent action, Bundy’s defense is that the federal government doesn’t own the land in question and therefore has no authority to regulate grazing. That simply isn’t right; the land, like most of Nevada, is federally owned. Bundy is representing himself, of necessity: no lawyer could make that argument.

That being the case, why does Bundy deserve our sympathy? To begin with, his family has been ranching on the acres at issue since the late 19th century. They and other settlers were induced to come to Nevada in part by the federal government’s promise that they would be able to graze their cattle on adjacent government-owned land. For many years they did so, with no limitations or fees. The Bundy family was ranching in southern Nevada long before the BLM came into existence.......

Based on the evidence, I would say: yes, that is probably the difference. When the desert tortoises balance out, Occam’s razor tells us that the distinction is political.

So let’s have some sympathy for Cliven Bundy and his family. They don’t have a chance on the law, because under the Endangered Species Act and many other federal statutes, the agencies are always in the right. And their way of life is one that, frankly, is on the outs. They don’t develop apps. They don’t ask for food stamps. It probably has never occurred to them to bribe a politician. They don’t subsist by virtue of government subsidies or regulations that hamstring competitors. They aren’t illegal immigrants. They have never even gone to law school. So what possible place is there for the Bundys in the Age of Obama?

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/04/why-you-should-be-sympathetic-toward-cliven-bundy.php#!