Author Topic: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch  (Read 13007 times)

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Offline ABX

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2014, 06:03:28 pm »
This is interesting. A while back LA Times exposed Harry Reid's connection to solar firms and massive donations to him. It is a former Reid staffer who now runs BLM. Guess what, this land is wanted by these solar firms for a new solar project (we know how these companies work with DC, a lot of $$ involved and political kickbacks).

http://www.futurnamics.com/reid_bundyranch.php


Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2014, 07:09:09 pm »
This is interesting. A while back LA Times exposed Harry Reid's connection to solar firms and massive donations to him. It is a former Reid staffer who now runs BLM. Guess what, this land is wanted by these solar firms for a new solar project (we know how these companies work with DC, a lot of $$ involved and political kickbacks).

http://www.futurnamics.com/reid_bundyranch.php

Right! Rap sent me this on FB: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/04/09/the-federal-government-moved-some-cows-and-nevadas-governor-isnt-happy-about-it/#comments
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BumperPressdotcom

2:52 PM EDT

Don't believe for a minute the FEDS are representing the rights of the public. It's desert land suitable only for cattle grazing, which is what the Bundy family has been doing there for over 100 years. The cattle and the land are suited for each other. It's a symbiotic relationship. The desert tortoise is not being threatened by the cattle grazing but by the BLM who are euthanizing them by the thousands. His great grandfather bought the rights to graze his cattle on the land long before the BLM came in. The BLM ruthlessly destroyed a way of life for all the other cattle ranchers who grazed their cattle on that land. They have all since been driven out through intimidation, except for Cliven Bundy. The FEDS want the grazing land for the minerals and oil fracking deposits, not for saving the tortoises, who were doing fine for the past 100 years, until the BLM stepped in. It's nothing but a corporate takeover of public land. The current head of the BLM is Neil Kornze, a former land policy adviser to "Dirty" Harry Reid, who stands to make millions from the land deals. Cliven Bundy is an honest man and a real American who is being trampled upon by big government. It's all about ruthless tyranny usurping his constitutional rights now, and yours later.

Chocoholic Leprechaun

2:26 PM EDT
- Bundy is the last of 53 ranchers who grazed herds on this land. The rest have been driven off - and out of business.
- 20 years ago BLM "reclassified" the land Bundy's family has used for over a hundred years.
- Claims of protecting the desert tortoise are bogus because the BLM has started killing them in large numbers due to "lack of funding" to carefor them.
- BLM's replacement excuse is to make it a "conservation area", but conservation of this type of land does not preclude grazing.In fact, buffalo and bison roamed here.
- The BLM is destroying wells the ranchers built and maintained on the land (the "land restoration" they're doing).
- Cattle are being rounded up, at least in part, by helicopters and some cattle are dying due to running in the desert heat.
- In its wisdom, the BLM chose calving season for its raid. Calves are dying from being separated from their mothers.
- From Day 1 the BLM showed up with hundreds, including snipers stationed around the area, and Blackwater type mercenaries.
- Nevada state police on the scene have been turning their backs on the BLM because they don't approve of the tactics.
- County Sheriff Gillespie has refused to act to stop the BLM, although it is within his authority to turn back the feds when they act against thepublic safety of citizens.
- BLM is making millions on similar cleared lands in northern Nevada, auctioning mineral and gas rights onceranchers are cleared.
George74

12:48 PM EDT

If they had a case all the BLM had to do was attach the rancher's bank account so much a month. No need to spend three million dollars(!) rounding up his cattle, no need to run pregnant cattle to death with helicopters, no need to assault citizens by shooting them with tazers or pulling weapons on them, no need to block roads. This is about getting the cattle off the land so it can be used for fracking or some other use. I smell Sen Reid and his son in the background

More at link

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2014, 07:28:56 pm »
The funny part is millions of these acres are use-owned by Hispanic ranchers in the Southwest through grants given by the Spanish when they ruled the area. They still have 800+ years to go on their land use contracts.

One of the areas of federal control in Texas is "Padre Island" now a national seashore.  It is named after the original owner, a Spanish priest.

Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2014, 07:36:57 pm »
BLM sells 29 oil, gas leases in northeast Nevada


RENO, Nev. (AP) — Buyers snapped up 29 federal land leases totaling more than 56 square miles in a northeastern Nevada area.
 
This could become the state's first oil shale fracking site.
 
U.S. Bureau of Land Management geologist Lorenzo Trimble tells the Las Vegas Review-Journal the Elko County oil and gas leases sold Tuesday for $1.27 million to six different companies.

The auction took place in Reno. The leases are near where Houston-based Noble Energy Inc. wants to drill for oil and natural gas on 40,000 acres of public and private land near the town of Wells.

The Review-Journal reports the project would be the first in Nevada to use hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, to extract oil and gas from shale deposits.

The BLM is conducting an environmental review of Noble's proposal.
http://m.shalereporter.com/industry/article_0de547ba-8ca4-11e2-ab4e-0019bb30f31a.html#user-comment-area

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2014, 07:47:34 pm »
One of the areas of federal control in Texas is "Padre Island" now a national seashore.  It is named after the original owner, a Spanish priest.
Maybe lawyer Mark Levin can explain the legal issues. Or lawyer Hugh Hewitt.

Terms and conditions for contracts CAN be unilaterally changed, and the other party can either negotiate, accept and honor the terms, or the deal is finished.

He's a squatter, now.

Maybe the entire family could have found other lands, to graze their herds. His herds are not large in number, and suitable or better lands are probably available in nearby Nevada, Utah and Arizona.

That would be hard exacting work. And of course he'd have to pay.

I believe at the end of this, thoughtful conservatives will see the rule of law aspects.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2014, 07:51:18 pm »
Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch

BLM attempted cover-up of Sen. Reid/Chinese gov’t takeover of ranch for solar farm

Kit Daniels
 Infowars.com
 April 11, 2014

The Bureau of Land Management, whose Director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.



Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states.

Another BLM report entitled Regional Mitigation Strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone (BLM Technical Note 444) reveals that Bundy’s land in question is within the “Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone and surrounding area” which is part of a broad U.S. Department of Energy program for “Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States” on land “managed” by BLM.

“In 2012, the BLM and the U.S. Department of Energy published the Final Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement (PEIS) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States,” the report reads. “The Final Solar Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement assessed the impact of utility-scale solar energy development on public lands in the six southwestern states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah.”

“The Approved Resource Management Plan Amendments/Record of Decision (ROD) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States implemented a comprehensive solar energy program for public lands in those states and incorporated land use allocations and programmatic and SEZ-specific design features into land use plans in the six-state study area.”

In 2012, the New American reported that Harry Reid’s son, Rory Reid, was the chief representative for a Chinese energy firm planning to build a $5-billion solar plant on public land in Laughlin, Nevada.

And journalist Marcus Stern with Reuters also reported that Sen. Reid was heavily involved in the deal as well.

“[Reid] and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert,” he wrote. “Reid has been one of the project’s most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada.”

“His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.”

Although these reports are in plain view, the mainstream media has so far ignored this link.

The BLM’s official reason for encircling the Bundy family with sniper teams and helicopters was to protect the endangered desert tortoise, which the agency has previously been killing in mass due to “budget constraints.”

“A tortoise isn’t the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher; they want his land,” journalist Oceander Loesch wrote. “The tortoise wasn’t of concern when [U.S. Senator] Harry Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore.”

“Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests,” she added. “BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”

“If only Clive Bundy were a big Reid donor.”

Update: The Drudge Report, the #1 news aggregate site in the world, has now picked up this story. Unfortunately for the BLM, the documents they wanted to delete are now exposed for the world to see.


This article was posted: Friday, April 11, 2014 at 2:24 pm

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2014, 07:53:51 pm »
BLM sells 29 oil, gas leases in northeast Nevada


RENO, Nev. (AP) — Buyers snapped up 29 federal land leases totaling more than 56 square miles in a northeastern Nevada area.
 
This could become the state's first oil shale fracking site.
 
Clue: Northeastern Nevada is a long, long way from Bundy's grazing location.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2014, 07:58:33 pm »
BLM sells 29 oil, gas leases in northeast Nevada


RENO, Nev. (AP) — Buyers snapped up 29 federal land leases totaling more than 56 square miles in a northeastern Nevada area.
 
This could become the state's first oil shale fracking site.
 
U.S. Bureau of Land Management geologist Lorenzo Trimble tells the Las Vegas Review-Journal the Elko County oil and gas leases sold Tuesday for $1.27 million to six different companies.

The auction took place in Reno. The leases are near where Houston-based Noble Energy Inc. wants to drill for oil and natural gas on 40,000 acres of public and private land near the town of Wells.

The Review-Journal reports the project would be the first in Nevada to use hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, to extract oil and gas from shale deposits.

The BLM is conducting an environmental review of Noble's proposal.
http://m.shalereporter.com/industry/article_0de547ba-8ca4-11e2-ab4e-0019bb30f31a.html#user-comment-area

Want to know the absurdity of this BS?  Cows and drilling rigs have gotten along just fine in Texas for the past 60-70 years. 

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2014, 07:59:26 pm »
Pointing a scatter gun into the air, and blasting away.....Harry Reid, fracking, solar, doesn't make a stronger case.

It is downright irresponsible urging a pickup full of armed militia yokels to go get shot at, for such a weak legal case.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2014, 08:03:38 pm »

Terms and conditions for contracts CAN be unilaterally changed, and the other party can either negotiate, accept and honor the terms, or the deal is finished.

Especially when one side disregards the rule of law.  General Motors ring any bells?

And I"m not saying this administration is the only one at fault in this case, but taking one's property via eminent domain for a freakin parking lot is NOT right.  This is only more of the same.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2014, 08:04:14 pm »
Want to know the absurdity of this BS?  Cows and drilling rigs have gotten along just fine in Texas for the past 60-70 years.
But what about tortoises?

One issue here appears to be the desire of the BLM to maintain a pristine environment for desert creatures, and getting them trampled by cattle is apparently not their plan.

A rational cattle rancher might find another parcel of land. Staying put, stopping rent payments, is not a viable long term business strategy.

This is not a strong legal case for the rancher.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline EC

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2014, 08:08:14 pm »
Maybe lawyer Mark Levin can explain the legal issues. Or lawyer Hugh Hewitt.

Terms and conditions for contracts CAN be unilaterally changed, and the other party can either negotiate, accept and honor the terms, or the deal is finished.

He's a squatter, now.

Maybe the entire family could have found other lands, to graze their herds. His herds are not large in number, and suitable or better lands are probably available in nearby Nevada, Utah and Arizona.

That would be hard exacting work. And of course he'd have to pay.

I believe at the end of this, thoughtful conservatives will see the rule of law aspects.

What has me pissed off is not the grazing rights - not my concern. It's the loss of the herd. A cow generation is 4 years - that is 25 generations of careful and selective breeding down the drain. Sold for peanuts to make burgers.
Let us assume he was raising beef cattle. Seems a fair assumption, since you don't open range dairy herds. Makes them kind of hard to milk. Unless his family lucked out, they have been buying bull semen at roughly $50 a straw for the last half century. Sure, maybe there was the odd inbreeding to fix a characteristic, but most of the time you buy it in. It usually takes two straws per cow to give you a 50:50 chance of a pregnancy.
Of those pregnancies, nearly 90% will be culls. Raised to about 18 months, then slaughtered. All the males and most of the females. Females at 4 years old (3 in the UK) are also slaughtered for their meat. It's pretty tough by then, but McDonalds and Walmart will buy anything.

That is a huge investment of time, money and attention - gone.
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Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2014, 08:09:15 pm »
The Bundys ranched on that 600 acres of land since around the time Nevada became a state in 1864. Then, all of a sudden a turtle was considered endangered, which it isn't, and the feds began seizing land. Law or not, it's not the right thing to do.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2014, 08:10:34 pm »
Especially when one side disregards the rule of law.  General Motors ring any bells?

And I"m not saying this administration is the only one at fault in this case, but taking one's property via eminent domain for a freakin parking lot is NOT right.  This is only more of the same.
If you mean Kelo, I happen to agree. And the conservatives on the Court concurred with taking her house. That is one reason I don't go cultlike for anybody involved with politics.

I do not like that one bit. In my town, before Kelo, the Council decided to not use eminent domain in cases of residential properties.

So more than 20 years later, the pattern of development in a high traffic resort area, is broken by small residences next to giant parking structures, etc.

And if they decided to go the other direction, I think public opinion would weigh in again.

I don't recall all the details of Kelo, but if a parallel to my town could overlay it, the local residents would have stood with Ms. Kelo, to not take her home. I don't remember if they did, and the court ignored that.

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Offline SouthTexas

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2014, 08:12:17 pm »
But what about tortoises?

One issue here appears to be the desire of the BLM to maintain a pristine environment for desert creatures, and getting them trampled by cattle is apparently not their plan.

A rational cattle rancher might find another parcel of land. Staying put, stopping rent payments, is not a viable long term business strategy.

This is not a strong legal case for the rancher.

From what I've heard they're not even endangered.  Just because some dumb@ss can't fine one in the city...  OK different subject.

This has reference to the case I noted the other day on a different thread. 
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/62362

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2014, 08:18:24 pm »
The Bundys ranched on that 600 acres of land since around the time Nevada became a state in 1864. Then, all of a sudden a turtle was considered endangered, which it isn't, and the feds began seizing land. Law or not, it's not the right thing to do.
Then what one does in our system of governance is get laws changed.

Maybe the political process will kick in and he'll get help in the form of a temporary injunction, barring the BLM from further action against his herd.

At the end of the day not everything in life is fair, nor does everything turn out your way.

BTW he should have paid the fees by the head, not by the acre. But he did not.

He could find other more suitable land, but he did not. He does NOT own the land in question.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2014, 08:21:35 pm »
If you mean Kelo, I happen to agree. And the conservatives on the Court concurred with taking her house. That is one reason I don't go cultlike for anybody involved with politics.

I do not like that one bit. In my town, before Kelo, the Council decided to not use eminent domain in cases of residential properties.

So more than 20 years later, the pattern of development in a high traffic resort area, is broken by small residences next to giant parking structures, etc.

And if they decided to go the other direction, I think public opinion would weigh in again.

I don't recall all the details of Kelo, but if a parallel to my town could overlay it, the local residents would have stood with Ms. Kelo, to not take her home. I don't remember if they did, and the court ignored that.

That's precisely what I was referring to as well as the confiscation of General Motors, turning it into Government Motors, then blessing the unions with a Christmas present.  I don't agree with any of it and the court be d*mned. 

As I said days ago, there is far more than meets the eye here.

Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2014, 08:25:30 pm »
His family ranched it for over 140 years. Back then Las Vegas and Reno wasn't even cities. There were other ranchers, but the government ran them off. The Bundy's are the last ranchers, and wouldn't allow themselves to be intimidated by the government. You can defend Reid and the government all you want, but what they did was unconstitutional, regardless what the law said...after the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if they are over-run with turtles.

Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2014, 08:26:36 pm »
Quote
As I said days ago, there is far more than meets the eye here.

Yes, there is!   :beer:

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2014, 08:34:20 pm »
The Real Story Behind The Bundy Ranch Harassment

*UPDATE: Those who say Bundy is a “deadbeat” are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights?

Cliven Bundy’s problem isn’t that he didn’t pay — he did — or that his cattle bother tortoises — they don’t — it’s that he’s not a Reid donor.

**One last thought: For those conservatives saying that since BLM arrived in the late 90s, it’s the law now, well, so is Obamacare.
- See more at: http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/#sthash.l9vh4ZtY.dpuf

http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

Offline ABX

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2014, 08:49:00 pm »
The Real Story Behind The Bundy Ranch Harassment

*UPDATE: Those who say Bundy is a “deadbeat” are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights?

Cliven Bundy’s problem isn’t that he didn’t pay — he did — or that his cattle bother tortoises — they don’t — it’s that he’s not a Reid donor.

**One last thought: For those conservatives saying that since BLM arrived in the late 90s, it’s the law now, well, so is Obamacare.
- See more at: http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/#sthash.l9vh4ZtY.dpuf

http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

Just bumping that one. Sounds like an Ex Post Facto action by BLM as well as everything else we've discussed.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2014, 09:06:38 pm »
Pointing a scatter gun into the air, and blasting away.....Harry Reid, fracking, solar, doesn't make a stronger case.

It is downright irresponsible urging a pickup full of armed militia yokels to go get shot at, for such a weak legal case.
Add to scatter gun claims, are now Brazilian interests are going to take over beef, and Chinese interests going to take over the solar--after the BLM drives the cattle rancher off, at the behest of Harry Reid.

Tea Party websites are egging people on, over this situation.

I'm worried some knuckleheaded follower is going to get himself hurt, or hurt somebody else over something they don't even understand.

On a more enlightened level, Isn't Gov. Sandoval a player? Couldn't the Nevada AG go into federal court, and ask for an injunction to stay these actions by BLM?



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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2014, 09:50:33 pm »
His family ranched it for over 140 years. Back then Las Vegas and Reno wasn't even cities. There were other ranchers, but the government ran them off. The Bundy's are the last ranchers, and wouldn't allow themselves to be intimidated by the government. You can defend Reid and the government all you want, but what they did was unconstitutional, regardless what the law said...after the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if they are over-run with turtles.
My great great uncle was born nearby 145 years ago. So by your criteria I prevail, right?

(1869 Nye County Nevada)
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Offline happyg

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2014, 09:52:06 pm »
My great great uncle was born nearby 145 years ago. So by your criteria I prevail, right?

(1869 Nye County Nevada)

Did he stay and cultivate the land? The Bundy ranch has been in the same spot since around that time.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2014, 10:20:55 pm »
Did he stay and cultivate the land? The Bundy ranch has been in the same spot since around that time.
Yes he stayed for awhile. Depends on the definition of cultivate. Not much "cultivation" of open range.

But then he moved on to greener pastures, which did require building a canal for irrigation purposes, getting land granted from another state, etc. Some of them still there. In the middle of nowhere, not sexy at all, bitter climate, etc.  And they wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

But my father did want to be somewhere else, which was with my mother. And just to make sure, they moved back and forth a couple of times, between the two family locations.

In the end SoCal won over. Why shouldn't it? My family has been out west including California since the 1840s. Gold Rush. Mormons.



"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln