Author Topic: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch  (Read 8702 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 280,995
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

Offline Gazoo

  • Inactive Members
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,959
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2014, 07:14:05 PM »
With all due respect, Mr. Bundy is blowing smoke up everyone's collective dresses.  Facts, rather than opinion, can be gleaned from the various court documents which, stripped of emotion, clearly show that Mr. Bundy was originally granted a permit (a so-called "ephemeral permit") to graze the land in question - which is not the private land he owns that adjoins the grazing land in question - and that in 1993 he didn't like the terms on which he was offered a renewal of that permit, so he simply refused the renewal, stopped paying the grazing fees, and continued to graze his cattle on the land in the so-called Allotment.  In 2000 he decided that wasn't enough, so he started grazing his cattle on federal land to which he had never had a permit in the first place.

And there is no such thing as taking adverse possession of lands owned by the sovereign, which in this case is the federal government, so it doesn't matter how long he and his family have been grazing their cattle on federal land, whether with or without a permit.  He has no ownership claim to the grazing land, he is a trespasser, and the federal government is entitled to have him and his cattle removed.

If the admin will allow it, I have copies of some of the other court documents which I can let them upload to the forum's server so everyone can review them.

You are on the federal governments side of this? Seriously? They are turning this into Waco 2.0 and you post this? Who cares, it is about Harry Reid and greed. Are you the latest troll to post here?

Quote
US Senator Joins Critics of Federal Cattle Roundup

LAS VEGAS April 10, 2014 (AP)

By KEN RITTER Associated Press
 
A Republican U.S. senator added his voice Wednesday to critics of a federal cattle roundup fought by a Nevada rancher who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas

Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn't be penalized by an "overreaching" agency.

Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called "an atmosphere of intimidation," resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled.

Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen's Association and remained "extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure."

The federal government has shut down a scenic but windswept area about half the size of the state of Delaware to round up about 900 cattle it says are trespassing.

BLM and National Park Service officials didn't immediately respond Wednesday to criticisms of the roundup that started Saturday and prompted the closure of the 1,200-square-mile area through May 12.

It's seen by some as the latest battle over state and federal land rights in a state with deep roots in those disputes, including the Sagebrush Rebellion of the 1970s and '80s. Nevada, where various federal agencies manage or control more than 80 percent of the land, is among several Western states where ranchers have challenged federal land ownership.

The current showdown pits rancher Cliven Bundy's claims of ancestral rights to graze his cows on open range against federal claims that the cattle are trespassing on arid and fragile habitat of the endangered desert tortoise. Bundy has said he owns about 500 branded cattle on the range and claims the other 400 targeted for roundup are his, too.

BLM and Park Service officials see threats in Bundy's promise to "do whatever it takes" to protect his property and in his characterization that the dispute constitutes a "range war."

U.S. Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Las Vegas, noted that BLM officials were enforcing federal court orders that Bundy remove his animals. The legal battle has been waged for decades.

Kornze, the new BLM chief, is familiar with the area. He's a natural resource manager who grew up in Elko, Nev., and served previously as a senior adviser to Senate Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Reid aide Kristen Orthman said her boss "hopes the trespassing cattle are rounded up safely so the issue can be resolved."

Sandoval, a former state attorney general and federal district court judge, weighed in late Tuesday after several days of media coverage about blocked roads and armed federal agents fanning out around Bundy's ranch while contractors using helicopters and vehicles herd cows into portable pens in rugged and remote areas.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/nevada-governor-decries-blm-rancher-dispute-23265149
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,915
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2014, 07:23:38 PM »
You are on the federal governments side of this? Seriously? They are turning this into Waco 2.0 and you post this? Who cares, it is about Harry Reid and greed. Are you the latest troll to post here?

Gazoo!

Whether you agree with his POV or not, he provides an intelligent, fact-based rebuttal on many broad statements said on behalf of Bundy.

I prefer more of a "We report  post....you decide" mentality.  Don't you?
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Whatever you're doing today, do it with all the confidence of a four-year-old wearing a Batman tee-shirt.

Online truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,425
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2014, 07:43:16 PM »
You are on the federal governments side of this? Seriously? They are turning this into Waco 2.0 and you post this? Who cares, it is about Harry Reid and greed. Are you the latest troll to post here?

Facts (should) trump emotions for people capable of understanding the situation. Why does he lose in court for the last 21 years, long before Harry Reid or Barrack Obama?

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Gazoo

  • Inactive Members
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,959
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2014, 07:53:40 PM »
Facts (should) trump emotions for people capable of understanding the situation. Why does he lose in court for the last 21 years, long before Harry Reid or Barrack Obama?

Common sense should trump your know it all facts. Only recently did anyone care about where the cows grazed. Common sense should trump your thought that this man deserved to be seized Waco style, for Harry Reids greed.  Emotions? Wouldn't you be emotional if your ranch was raided and you were not a criminal?
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,820
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2014, 07:55:26 PM »
Common sense should trump your know it all facts. Only recently did anyone care about where the cows grazed. Common sense should trump your thought that this man deserved to be seized Waco style, for Harry Reids greed.  Emotions? Wouldn't you be emotional if your ranch was raided and you were not a criminal?

Agree!
Quote
shady builder Jim Rhodes (the four lane improved highway to Searchlight goes right by Reid's land). Then there are the shenanigans involving the Coyote Springs development of lawyer/friend Harvey Whittemore where Reid moved mountains to obtain transmission line and desert tortoise rights ? now defunct the land is being repositioned for largess from a solar plant operator. Currently there is the Anderson Dairy scandal where dairyman (with real cows) and Republican member of the State Assembly Ed Goedart was forced to ship milk to California, then ship California milk back to Nevada while Reid supporter Andersen Dairy is given a waiver.
  http://www.futurnamics.com/reid.php

Offline Gazoo

  • Inactive Members
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,959
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2014, 08:07:56 PM »
Agree!   http://www.futurnamics.com/reid.php

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWkS8tPZFRg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWkS8tPZFRg</a>


You don't have to buy the dudes book to know that Reid was not vetted and protected and mirrored by the radical Obama progressives.
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Gazoo

  • Inactive Members
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,959
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2014, 08:16:04 PM »
Gazoo!

Whether you agree with his POV or not, he provides an intelligent, fact-based rebuttal on many broad statements said on behalf of Bundy.

I prefer more of a "We report  post....you decide" mentality.  Don't you?

And I posted my POV. Knock yourself out valuing opinions. Reply to them. If you don't like my replies to them, lump it and don't read them.
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,820
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2014, 09:25:16 PM »

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 280,995
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2014, 09:35:06 PM »
Sean will cover this story at 9central on his show at Fox
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

Online truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,425
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2014, 10:25:29 PM »
Common sense should trump your know it all facts. Only recently did anyone care about where the cows grazed. Common sense should trump your thought that this man deserved to be seized Waco style, for Harry Reids greed.  Emotions? Wouldn't you be emotional if your ranch was raided and you were not a criminal?
".....know it all" facts?  You're hurting my "feelings."
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline ABX

  • Technical
  • ****
  • Posts: 994
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2014, 11:33:13 PM »
FAA just declared the space over the ranch a no fly zone with only BLM and relief (ie emergency) activity allowed.

Quote
NOTAM : 4/1687
 
FDC 4/1687 ZLA NV..AIRSPACE MESQUITE, NV..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS WITHIN AREA DEFINED AS 3NM RADIUS OF 364624N/1141113W (MMM71 RADIAL AT 4.3NM) SFC-3000FT AGL LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.137(A)(1) TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT. ONLY RELIEF AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER DIRECTION OF BLM ARE AUTHORIZED IN THE AIRSPACE. BLM TELEPHONE 702-335-3191 IS IN CHARGE OF ON SCENE EMERGENCY RESPONSE ACTIVITY. LOS ANGELES /ZLA/ ARTCC TELEPHONE 661-265-8205 IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. 1404112140-1405111434

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/notam_actual_4_1687.html

Offline R4 TrumPence

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,384
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2014, 12:28:00 AM »
The hardest part of getting licensed in real estate in NV was the state law test!  I have taken 3 state tests now and NV was the hardest and craziest and most of it dealt with the BLM! That is one agency that needs to go!!!  The regulations and the oversight are gestapo like!!!


I am Repub4Bush on FR '02

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,915
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2014, 12:58:04 AM »
And I posted my POV. Knock yourself out valuing opinions. Reply to them. If you don't like my replies to them, lump it and don't read them.

Then please stop calling a poster with a minority POV a troll.

Thank you.   :patriot:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Whatever you're doing today, do it with all the confidence of a four-year-old wearing a Batman tee-shirt.

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,820
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2014, 01:10:57 AM »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,596
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2014, 01:13:22 AM »
One of the big confusions here is the claim and misuse of term 'rent'. These old grazing grants are not renting in the general sense. These were contracts with the rancher and State which basically gave the rancher 'use ownership' while the State owns the land. A lot of times, in order to make it the same as ownership, the rights were contracted for 999 years.  Tens if not hundreds of millions of acres around this country are held by ranchers this way, it is one of the foundations of the large ranching system.

When the contracts were handed from the State to the Federal Government, one of the caviats were that these existing contracts would be honored.

This is the crux of the issue, the BLM has come in and claimed right to both land ownership and breaking the contract on usage ownership.


Here is the scary part. Millions of these acres were legally used by ranch owners to sell usage rights to developers and in some areas, subdivisions have grown up on this land. If this trend continues, there will be nothing stopping the BLM from coming in and taking property from millions of homeowners around the country.

I wouldn't be surprised if you dig into the deed history of many people on this site, you'll find that your homes fall under this. Your land and home are simply transfers of usage rights, not true landowner rights.

The contract wasn't dishonored. Mr. Bundy voided the contract by refusing to pay the fees.
�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Online truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,425
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2014, 01:27:44 AM »
The hardest part of getting licensed in real estate in NV was the state law test!  I have taken 3 state tests now and NV was the hardest and craziest and most of it dealt with the BLM! That is one agency that needs to go!!!  The regulations and the oversight are gestapo like!!!
BLM is federal, so that part is not exclusive to Nevada. Overall 86% of the land in Nevada is government owned.

I hope some trigger happy militiaman doesn't damage the conservative cause, because of what he "feels" the laws should be.  An act by militia will be tied to the Tea Party, to conservatism, and to Republicans.

A group that often proclaims we are a Constitutional Republic, that we are governed by laws not by men, had best sit still and take stock of what the facts are in this case, instead of "shooting from the hip."

There is a bunch of goofy stuff being claimed here, that is simply not accurate. Chinese, Brazilians, solar, fracking, Reno, Laughlin, etc.

I hope Bundy gets some legal and political help, gets his day in court again, etc. Unless he is hell bent on losing, he needs to be reasonable, willing to compromise.

Anybody with a serious mind, would have to consider his action to become $300,000 in arrears in grazing fees, puts him at a disadvantage in a court case.

In America, when we lose in court, we don't start firing guns. He's lost in court numerous times.

 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 01:29:58 AM by truth_seeker »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline NavyCanDo

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,267
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2014, 01:30:15 AM »
America, home of the free.    It was a great ride while it lasted.
A nation that turns away from prayer will ultimately find itself in desperate need of it. :Jonathan Cahn

Offline R4 TrumPence

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,384
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2014, 03:41:16 AM »
BLM is federal, so that part is not exclusive to Nevada. Overall 86% of the land in Nevada is government owned.

I hope some trigger happy militiaman doesn't damage the conservative cause, because of what he "feels" the laws should be.  An act by militia will be tied to the Tea Party, to conservatism, and to Republicans.

A group that often proclaims we are a Constitutional Republic, that we are governed by laws not by men, had best sit still and take stock of what the facts are in this case, instead of "shooting from the hip."

There is a bunch of goofy stuff being claimed here, that is simply not accurate. Chinese, Brazilians, solar, fracking, Reno, Laughlin, etc.

I hope Bundy gets some legal and political help, gets his day in court again, etc. Unless he is hell bent on losing, he needs to be reasonable, willing to compromise.

Anybody with a serious mind, would have to consider his action to become $300,000 in arrears in grazing fees, puts him at a disadvantage in a court case.

In America, when we lose in court, we don't start firing guns. He's lost in court numerous times.

 

I know it is federal, but it is quite a bit on the NV test. Which is the only part I had to take BTW.  My problem is exactly what you just posted. STATE LAND!  So why are the BLM involved at all?

If you follow what Bundy and others have been saying, there is a lot more to it, than he just not paying that "fee" all these years.

plus there is no reason for the BLM to go in all gestapo like we live in a banana republic!


I am Repub4Bush on FR '02

Offline SouthTexas

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,665
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2014, 09:20:35 AM »

I hope some trigger happy militiaman doesn't damage the conservative cause, because of what he "feels" the laws should be.  An act by militia will be tied to the Tea Party, to conservatism, and to Republicans.


The way I see it, the BLM is creating laws they "feel" are right.  Same BS as the EPA and numerous other federal agencies that are operating well outside of their jurisdiction. 

The common response is "if you don't like it, go to Congress and change the law".    Would that also apply to the other side also?  But they don't seem to have to do that, they just make it up as they go along.

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,820
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2014, 09:46:27 AM »

Offline SouthTexas

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,665
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2014, 10:31:32 AM »


I tried saying this early on and no one seemed to hear.

The problem came from his cattle "trespassing" on the BLM's (ours) land.  It was said even the BLM does no know where the imaginary line is located between the ranch and the state/federal lands. 

If they are so concerned about the turtles, why don't they build a fence?  Must not be about turtles huh? 

Fences make good  neighbors but since the feds cannot even build one on the southern border, I suppose one here is completely out of the question.

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,820
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2014, 10:39:26 AM »
I tried saying this early on and no one seemed to hear.

The problem came from his cattle "trespassing" on the BLM's (ours) land.  It was said even the BLM does no know where the imaginary line is located between the ranch and the state/federal lands. 

If they are so concerned about the turtles, why don't they build a fence?  Must not be about turtles huh? 

Fences make good  neighbors but since the feds cannot even build one on the southern border, I suppose one here is completely out of the question.

The same people who are decrying Bundy's actions  would have been one of the ones decrying to tossing of tea into Boston harbor...

Offline SouthTexas

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,665
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2014, 10:50:06 AM »
The same people who are decrying Bundy's actions  would have been one of the ones decrying to tossing of tea into Boston harbor...

LOL, you have a good point there. 

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,596
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: BREAKING: Militia Arrives at Bundy Ranch
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2014, 11:28:03 AM »
LOL, you have a good point there.

Maybe you're right, but that still doesn't mean that Bundy is not in the wrong here.

There is a highway that I've traveled daily for decades in South Florida, last year the State government made it a toll road and suddenly I was paying to use a road that I'd used for free for years.

If I run those toll booths, I will be arrested, and no matter how hard I try to argue that I don't agree with the decision to transform free roads to tolled roads, that I am not getting anything extra for those tolls, and that I have some sort of pre-eminent domain right to use those roads for free as a result of having always used those roads for free, the descendants of those people who threw the tea into the harbor set up the system of government that we all currently live under, and the law that was enacted which took my daily route to work from free to a tolled route, was enacted according to the governing mechanisms that they basically set into place, albeit bloated and dysfunctional.

The same basic situation applies to the Bundy case.

We can start to overthrow the government over situations like these, and God knows I think we need a whole new Constitution and government, but as that crazy old fart in the city council said, both sides better start setting up some funeral plans.

The tree of liberty is refreshed with the blood of both patriots and tyrants.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 11:33:02 AM by Luis Gonzalez »
�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf