Author Topic: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries  (Read 5208 times)

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2013, 07:52:13 am »
Exactly, so we've got to get middle America aware by letting them experience firsthand how expensive and totalitarian your health-care will be under Obamacare.

And on the same token I would be against stopping unemployment benefits.  It hurts the GOP brand and provides fodder for their candidates.

Truth is there's no difference between $17 Trillion and $23 Trillion.  NONE of it is ever going to be paid back.  So I would have let it ride until I controlled all 3 branches.

I think your strategy is sound, and your observation that reducing unemployment benefits feeds an image of an unsympathetic GOP is true. Reagan would approve.   

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Reagan's 1983 State of the Union.
http://reagan2020.us/speeches/state_of_the_union_1983.asp
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Shortly, I will submit to the Congress the Employment Act of 1983, designed to get at the special problems of the long-term unemployed, as well as young people trying to enter the job market. I'll propose extending unemployment benefits, including special incentives to employers who hire the long-term unemployed, providing programs for displaced workers, and helping federally funded and state-administered unemployment insurance programs provide workers with training and relocation assistance. Finally, our proposal will include new incentives for summer youth employment to help young people get a start in the job market.

Online Bigun

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2013, 02:15:58 pm »
I wouldn't go so far as to say there's no difference between $17 Trillion and $23 Trillion, but as a strategic move to put the republicans in a position where they have a much better chance to try and stop things from getting to that point, I wouldn't disagree with your main points.

Sorry but no! I am not in favor of creating ANY new entitlements and surely not a You get a paycheck forever whether you work or not entitlement  as the democrats were trying to do!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2013, 02:32:34 pm »
Sorry but no! I am not in favor of creating ANY new entitlements and surely not a You get a paycheck forever whether you work or not entitlement  as the democrats were trying to do!

My strategy was that the GOP should do absolutely nothing that would provide the Democrats a chance to point fingers at Republicans.  Not one Republican voted for the ACA.  Not one.

And we're certainly not creating any new entitlement in unemployment bennies.

We just want the voters to enter the mid-term elections with nothing on their minds except Health-Care....and the total failure of Obamacare.   

Once we get 3 branches.....we start to ween the public back to work. 
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Online Bigun

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2013, 02:38:58 pm »
Once we get 3 branches.....we start to ween the public back to work.

Yeah! Just like they did the last time the Republicans had all three branches!

I understand your strategy but unless the republicans who control all three branches are actual CONSERVATIVES nothing will change! NOTHING!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2013, 04:31:37 pm »
You do realize, don't you, that a convention isn't limited to a few narrow, predetermined issues?  Article V of the Constitution provides that "on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, [Congress] shall call a convention for proposing amendments, ...."  Suppose that conservative/republican legislatures in 34 states applied for such a convention, and that Congress then called such a convention.  Presumably every state would then be entitled to send delegates to this convention, although it's not clear whether participation in such a convention is limited to state delegations only (I would guess that this would be a matter of the rules the convention managers would draw up for running the convention).  At that point, all hell breaks loose and every proposal under the Sun will be run up the flag, including many that would give pause to a lot of the conservatives/republicans who originally applied for the convention.  The end result could very well look nothing like what was envisioned by the legislatures that applied for the convention in the first place.  Do we, do you, really want to take a risk like that?  I don't.

The last time that a Constitutional Convention was called, it was called to "fix" a governing document that wasn't working as intended.

The end result was an entirely new governing document.

To add to your post, this notion that the document generated by this convention would be more in concert with conservative principles is political pollyannaism.

If anything, it would make the new standard of Constitutional government more liberal, since it would create a document to address the present state of our Union.

Our system of checks and balances no longer functions. The three branches of government act in concert in order to impose a "government for the people" style of governance rather than a government of the people as intended. There are no better examples of that than the logical contortions used by the SCOTUS to arrive at the constitutionality of the ACA's individual mandate, or the passivity of Congress in the face of Obama's constant encroachments of congressional powers.

The concept of federalism is all but non-existent. States are so beholden to Federal money, and so wary of punitive action by the Federal government, that they are largely ineffective in opposing mandates from DC. There are the occasional pockets of defiance, but very few instance of effective broad-based disobedience.

There is a fourth unelected and largely unaccountable branch of government. Here's Daniel Greenfield on the subject (from Rise of the Mediacracy)

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A nation where governments are elected by the people is most vulnerable at the interface between the politicians and the people. The interface is where the people learn what the politicians stand for and where the politicians learn what the people want. The bigger a country gets, the harder it is to pick up on that consensus by stopping by a coffee shop or an auto repair store. That's where the Mediacracy steps in to control the consensus.

The media is no longer informative, it is conformative. It is not interested in broadcasting events unless it can also script them. It does not want to know what you think, it wants to tell you what to think. The consensus is the voice of the people and the Mediacrats are cutting its throat, dumping its body in a back alley and turning democracy into their own puppet show.

Media bias was over decades ago. The media isn't biased anymore, it's a player, its goal is turn its Fourth Estate into a fourth branch of government, the one that squats below the three branches and blocks their access to the people and blocks the people's access to them. Under the Mediacracy there will still be elections, they will even be mostly free, they just won't matter so long as its upper ranks determine the dialogue on both sides of the media wall.

Government by Executive fiat is the norm, and not the exception. Beyond that, Barack Obama's mere utterances modify standing law, making the White House Press Room a third and omnipotent branch of our alleged bicameral Congress.

We need a new Declaration of Independence, a listing of our grievances, before we think about a new (or revised) Constitution.

It may very well be "course of human events" time again.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 04:32:13 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Online Bigun

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2013, 04:52:30 pm »
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The last time that a Constitutional Convention was called, it was called to "fix" a governing document that wasn't working as intended.

The end result was an entirely new governing document.

Absolutely a historical FACT!

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To add to your post, this notion that the document generated by this convention would be more in concert with conservative principles is political pollyannaism.

If anything, it would make the new standard of Constitutional government more liberal, since it would create a document to address the present state of our Union.

Perhaps but not certain.

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Our system of checks and balances no longer functions. The three branches of government act in concert in order to impose a "government for the people" style of governance rather than a government of the people as intended. There are no better examples of that than the logical contortions used by the SCOTUS to arrive at the constitutionality of the ACA's individual mandate, or the passivity of Congress in the face of Obama's constant encroachments of congressional powers.

Only because WE the people have gone to sleep and allowed it to be so!

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The concept of federalism is all but non-existent.

You are misinformed if you think that.

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States are so beholden to Federal money, and so wary of punitive action by the Federal government, that they are largely ineffective in opposing mandates from DC. There are the occasional pockets of defiance, but very few instance of effective broad-based disobedience.

Entirely the result of the 17th amendment which has done EXACTLY what it's proponents wanted it to do!

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There is a fourth unelected and largely unaccountable branch of government. Here's Daniel Greenfield on the subject (from Rise of the Mediacracy)

Absolutely true! The press, until recently, has become nothing other than the propaganda arm of government and the recent additions are small indeed in the grand scheme of things.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 04:53:32 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien