Juan Williams: Right Wanted Bashir, Maher Fired, But ‘Cry Foul’ Over Duck Dynasty Star?

[Oceander]

That is something I find sad. Defining yourself by one thing is a horrible waste of a person, and it doesn't matter what that thing is.

My experience has been the opposite. While I know several flamboyant homosexuals, they don't get in your face about it, we just laugh and joke about everything under the sun (tend to be good company, too). But most of them - being homosexual is just their preference. Not their identity.

I've known a number of homosexuals, gay men as well as lesbians, and not a single one of them defined himself solely, or primarily, in terms of being homosexual, and certainly not in a way that was antagonistic to anyone who wasn't homosexual.  In fact, the people I've known didn't mind being themselves in the company of friends - and certainly weren't offensive about it in any way - but were otherwise just as protective of their privacy and personal lives and is any non-homosexual.  Several of the folks I've known have even been good old-fashioned lower case "c" conservatives inasmuch as they firmly believed in individual liberty and freedom from government interference or nosiness in their private affairs, personal responsibility, and free market economics.  They're my friends, they're good human beings, and they're as disgusted by people who want to define everyone's politics and entitlements based on their sexual preferences as much as I am.  The fact of the matter is this:  we're all sinners, and all sins are equal in the sight of God, so the person who takes the Lord's name in vain by cursing, such as using Christ's name as an expletive, is just as much a sinner as is a practicing homosexual.  But just as the curser may be an otherwise good person whose sinfulness does not wholly wreck that goodness and thus accorded a certain look-the-other-way'ness as between us sinners, so too giving that same courtesy to an otherwise good person who happens to also be a practicing homosexual, as between us sinners, is the same thing.

If I spend a lot of extra time in purgatory for this view, then so be it.

[Oceander]

The 'other end of the spectrum' is microscopic.

THAT is the point.  Why do you keep missing it?

It is?  You've been staring down the wrong end of the telescope for far too long.

[GourmetDan]

If I spend a lot of extra time in purgatory for this view, then so be it.

Did God really say...

Romans 1:32 - "Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

[GourmetDan]

It is?  You've been staring down the wrong end of the telescope for far too long.

Still begging the question, I see...

[EC]

If I spend a lot of extra time in purgatory for this view, then so be it.

Meh - we'll meet up for a beer or 6.

[Oceander]

Did God really say...

Romans 1:32 - "Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Are you wholly without sin?  If not, then we're equally condemned, so your apparent virtuousness does you nothing.  If we're all condemned to death in any event because we're all sinners, then I'd prefer to enjoy the company of decent people whose decency outweighs whatever sins they're going to die for.  Cutting yourself off from otherwise decent companions even though that won't change your fate - death - one whit seems rather short-sighted and stupid to me.

[Oceander]

Meh - we'll meet up for a beer or 6.

Hopefully they'll have something better than near beer, or Foster's, in purgatory.

[olde north church]

Hopefully they'll have something better than near beer, or Foster's, in purgatory.

Pabst in Purgatory. 


Mead in Valhalla!

[Oceander]

Pabst in Purgatory. 


Mead in Valhalla!

I'll take Pabst over Fosters.

[GourmetDan]

Are you wholly without sin?  If not, then we're equally condemned, so your apparent virtuousness does you nothing.  If we're all condemned to death in any event because we're all sinners, then I'd prefer to enjoy the company of decent people whose decency outweighs whatever sins they're going to die for.  Cutting yourself off from otherwise decent companions even though that won't change your fate - death - one whit seems rather short-sighted and stupid to me.

That verse is from the one who was without sin.  And we are not equally condemned to death in any event.  That is from the father of lies and is designed to trap people in their sin.  Christ was was crucified for telling sinners that they were living in sin.

Some hear his voice, some do not...

[EC]

Pabst in Purgatory. 


Mead in Valhalla!

Give me honey and a few herbs and I'll give you a mead that will lift the top of your skull off.

[olde north church]

Give me honey and a few herbs and I'll give you a mead that will lift the top of your skull off.

My drinking days are over.  I had a Sierra Nevada Torpedo Pale Ale the other day with a steak.  Didn't get drunk but had a light beer hangover the next day. 
Anti-seizure meds and alcohol do not mix.  I could probably count on my fingers and toes the number of drinks I've had in the past 25 years.
I made the mistake of drinking 5 cranberry and vodkas over the course of an evening and ended up in the ER the next night.  No more.  Maybe half a glass of wine with pasta or an ale with a steak a couple of times a year.  That's only in the past 4 or 5 years.  I went about 15 years without a drink.

[EC]

My drinking days are over.  I had a Sierra Nevada Torpedo Pale Ale the other day with a steak.  Didn't get drunk but had a light beer hangover the next day. 
Anti-seizure meds and alcohol do not mix.  I could probably count on my fingers and toes the number of drinks I've had in the past 25 years.
I made the mistake of drinking 5 cranberry and vodkas over the course of an evening and ended up in the ER the next night.  No more.  Maybe half a glass of wine with pasta or an ale with a steak a couple of times a year.  That's only in the past 4 or 5 years.  I went about 15 years without a drink.

 

It always seems to be the pleasures that go first.

I don't (cant) drink. Doesn't stop me brewing it for those who do! 

Oceander can have the beer or mead - we'll hit a fruit punch or several.

[andy58-in-nh]

I've known a number of homosexuals, gay men as well as lesbians, and not a single one of them defined himself solely, or primarily, in terms of being homosexual, and certainly not in a way that was antagonistic to anyone who wasn't homosexual.  In fact, the people I've known didn't mind being themselves in the company of friends - and certainly weren't offensive about it in any way - but were otherwise just as protective of their privacy and personal lives and is any non-homosexual.  Several of the folks I've known have even been good old-fashioned lower case "c" conservatives inasmuch as they firmly believed in individual liberty and freedom from government interference or nosiness in their private affairs, personal responsibility, and free market economics.  They're my friends, they're good human beings, and they're as disgusted by people who want to define everyone's politics and entitlements based on their sexual preferences as much as I am.  The fact of the matter is this:  we're all sinners, and all sins are equal in the sight of God, so the person who takes the Lord's name in vain by cursing, such as using Christ's name as an expletive, is just as much a sinner as is a practicing homosexual.  But just as the curser may be an otherwise good person whose sinfulness does not wholly wreck that goodness and thus accorded a certain look-the-other-way'ness as between us sinners, so too giving that same courtesy to an otherwise good person who happens to also be a practicing homosexual, as between us sinners, is the same thing.

If I spend a lot of extra time in purgatory for this view, then so be it.

Your experience with gay people closely mirrors my own. I have known many, and as a rule, have not found them offensive in their personal behavior or interactions with me.

My problem is not with gay individuals, but with the intentional politicization of the personal. It is obnoxious and destructive of civil society.

My discomfort with and disapproval of homosexual lifestyles in no way leads me to reject them as fellow human beings, ones deserving of the same essential, inalienable rights as I enjoy. Their liberties ought not be inferior to my own, but no better, either.

How God may view their behavior is another matter, ideas about which, in a free country must be tolerated, even if one disagrees.  For people of faith in Judeo-Christian values to offer written or verbal judgement on such matters is most often an honest expression of loyalty to the tenets of one's faith.

What it is not, in the great majority of instances that I have seen, is "hate speech", the most evident examples of which today emanate instead from the Left and from Islamic extremists.

[GourmetDan]

Your experience with gay people closely mirrors my own. I have known many, and as a rule, have not found them offensive in their personal behavior or interactions with me.

Well, it's the opposite of mine.  The ones I worked with were constantly fighting among themselves and taking advantage of each other at every opportunity.  They also made it very clear that they would hump me at the drop of a hat.  It was the worship of self at it's worst.

I have met two people who admitted to having killed another human being, one of them was a gay male who was just as 'nice' as he could be...

[EC]

I have met two people who admitted to having killed another human being, one of them was a gay male who was just as 'nice' as he could be...

You just met a third. Betting there are many more on here, considering a good half of the regular posters are vets.

Not a lot to do with sexual preference. It's doing the job you are paid to do.

[GourmetDan]

You just met a third. Betting there are many more on here, considering a good half of the regular posters are vets.

Not a lot to do with sexual preference. It's doing the job you are paid to do.

First of all, you and I have never 'met' and I do not know you.

Second, they didn't kill someone for money.  It was done out of hate...

[Lipstick on a Hillary]

*sigh*

No, it's not.  It's about certain people bitching about the fact that a private business chose to do what it was free to do simply because they don't like the result.

Okey doke.  If that's the very narrow view you want to thread through a needle, I'll defend to the death your right to do so. 

[Lipstick on a Hillary]

So when Robertson decided to wax on about the unacceptable aspects of homosexuality, and how homosexuality was basically no different than bestiality, people got pissed because they don't want to be told what to think.

The point is that we've become an intolerant society that's lost the concept of "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", and have chosen instead to punish people for what they say that we don't agree with. WE are the biggest violators of free speech rights. Not that we can't be, but it is damaging nevertheless.

It happened to The Dixie Chicks, it happened to Phil Robertson.

My goodness, how you've "grown" since your GOPachy days. 

[Atomic Cow]

Bashir called for Palin to be assaulted in the most vile way.

Phil simply gave his opinion and never once called for anyone to be harmed or mistreated.

[Rapunzel]

Bashir called for Palin to be assaulted in the most vile way.

Phil simply gave his opinion and never once called for anyone to be harmed or mistreated.

Thank you!!!! For actually returning to the subject of the thread... Interesting we have two posters more interested in going after DD on this thread than discussing the subject of this thread... and..
 BTW Palin never called for Bashir to be fired, what she did was turn down an interview with Matt Laur since it was NBC and a network who allowed an employee to make vile comments wasn't one she would agree to be interviewed on.  Given Bashir probably had two whole viewers and every time Palin has been interviewed on Today their ratings spike her refusal hurt them more than her....and what about Maur, his comments mocking her Down syndrome  son and talking about raping her 16 year old daughter was not even close to what Robinson said... Juan's comment was idiotic as are the comments agreeing with him.

[Lipstick on a Hillary]

Might I add that I think its fair to hold Bashir to a higher standard anyway.  A TV program host of a national news network broadcast incited a violent assault on an innocent American citizen.  You'd have to be stupid as hell not to know it was most likely scripted/pre-meditated beforehand by him and his producers--making the whole episode even more loathsome. 

Meanwhile, OTOH--you have Phil Robertson, who was asked to explain why gay marriage is in conflict with his personal values, so he did.  Not even on his TV show mind you, but in an adult magazine interview. 

To sit here and watch posters equate these two very different scenarios as morally equivalent is just beyond baffling-- and strange.  VERY popcorn worthy.  :eatdrink:

[raml]

You rapunzel are so correct. I said before that Bashir attacked an individual naming her and being very crude and I said Maher is just a kook I would never listen to in the first place and the world would be a better place if no one did but I have no feelings on whether they should be fired I just think people should boycott them if they irritate them so in time they lose their audience. Mahir did make my blood boil when he made fun of Palins handicapped son and he needed to be shot down for that. Robertson took a quote out of the bible that mentioned groups of sinners and not just homosexuals. I have found in my life the gays I have met were certainly not the in your face type of gays. I have worked with some and you would never know they were gay if you didn't see them outside of work with their partners. I am against the lifestyle but I am not against the person and get along fine with them because they don't talk about it anymore than I talked about my personal lifestyle with them since we were just co workers. I had a male friend out in California that was gay and he rarely if ever talked about his boyfriend with me he was a great person to go shopping with and I enjoyed his company. He was aware I was a Christian and respected that fact and did not ever put down my religion or the church I went to. I really don't think my being around him caused me any harm nor was it a sin to care about him we are told to love one another. I also kept him in my prayers and he said he appreciated that fact.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The 'other end of the spectrum' is microscopic.

THAT is the point.  Why do you keep missing it?

It's. Not. Your. Company.

Don't watch A&E, don't patronize their advertisers.

If they made the wrong decision, no one will be happier than you.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Okey doke.  If that's the very narrow view you want to thread through a needle, I'll defend to the death your right to do so.

That's not a narrow view, the right of a business to conduct business in a manner that it feels bests suits their interests, and within the boundaries of established law is a core conservative value.

Restrictions imposed on business by government are generally opposed by conservatives unless absolutely necessary.

If Robertson's name had been Ahmed and A&E had fired as a result of pressure from women's groups after Ahmed was interviewed by GQ and in that interviewed he was extolling the values of sharia law and the treatment of women under Islamic law, no one will protest one bit about his firing. Most would actually cheer the firing.

In fact, I'd guess that most here would support it.