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Offline SouthTexas

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« Reply #150 on: December 24, 2013, 11:27:43 AM »
The whole comparison is ludicrous.  Bashir's was a personal attack against an individual, Robertson's was not.
Totally bogus from the get-go, as is most of Juan Williams' comments.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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« Reply #151 on: December 24, 2013, 12:01:25 PM »
The whole comparison is ludicrous.  Bashir's was a personal attack against an individual, Robertson's was not.
Totally bogus from the get-go, as is most of Juan Williams' comments.

So, in this unusual moral relativism equation of yours, the murder of one Jew is worse than the genocide of the Jewish people.

Interesting concept.
�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #152 on: December 24, 2013, 02:14:52 PM »
The whole comparison is ludicrous.  Bashir's was a personal attack against an individual, Robertson's was not.
Totally bogus from the get-go, as is most of Juan Williams' comments.

Exactly!!!!
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline mountaineer

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« Reply #153 on: December 24, 2013, 02:48:48 PM »
So, in this unusual moral relativism equation of yours, the murder of one Jew is worse than the genocide of the Jewish people.

Interesting concept.
What's interesting (not really) is the way you twisted the poster's words.
"Because men have lost the objective basis of certainty of knowledge of the thing in which they are working, more and more I fear we are going to find them manipulating science according to their own sociological or political desires rather than standing upon concrete objectivity." Francis A. Schaeffer

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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« Reply #154 on: December 24, 2013, 02:54:15 PM »
So, in this unusual moral relativism equation of yours, the murder of one Jew is worse than the genocide of the Jewish people.

Interesting concept.
 

The incitement of violence on one innocent person is always going to be worse than a thousand solicited opinions.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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« Reply #155 on: December 24, 2013, 03:06:19 PM »
What's interesting (not really) is the way you twisted the poster's words.

I drew a logical conclusion based on his premise that injury to the one is more egregious than injury to the many, which is EXACTLY what he posted. 

In his equation it would be a greater offense to accuse John Smith of being a bigot, than to paint the entire T.E.A. Party as an organization supporting bigotry because John Smith claims to belong to it. 

If that makes sense to you, that's fine. But own it.
�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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« Reply #156 on: December 24, 2013, 03:15:03 PM »
 

The incitement of violence on one innocent person is always going to be worse than a thousand solicited opinions.

The point here is that you agree with Robertson and disagree with Bashir, so nothing that can be said will change your mind.

That's fine, but it doesn't make you right and me wrong.

I disagree with both Robertson and Bashir, but I recognize both their rights to speak their minds just as I recognize the equal rights of all to raise objections and the right of the businesses involved to act in a manner they believe to be in the best interest of their enterprises.

Voices raised in protest over statements they consider to be objectionable does not constitute a violation of free speech. It is a feature of free speech rights.


�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Cincinnatus

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« Reply #157 on: December 24, 2013, 05:47:13 PM »
I haven't contradicted you because I'm bored with the absurd nature of your posts.

It was my opinion. I should know... I posted it.

You don't think that what I stated as my opinion is my opinion?

That's just your opinion.

Hey, Luis, don't for one minute think I didn't notice you only stated this hours after I had pointed out you hadn't contradicted my claim of what you were actually doing: telling the Conservatives on here HOW they think.

no one will protest one bit about his firing. Most would actually cheer the firing.

Now the only question is: why do I doubt your sincerity this time?

:happyhappy:
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline SouthTexas

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« Reply #158 on: December 24, 2013, 10:01:38 PM »
So, in this unusual moral relativism equation of yours, the murder of one Jew is worse than the genocide of the Jewish people.

Interesting concept.

Since there are no bodies laying around on either side, I think your comparison is bogus as well.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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« Reply #159 on: December 24, 2013, 10:01:54 PM »
Hey, Luis, don't for one minute think I didn't notice you only stated this hours after I had pointed out you hadn't contradicted my claim of what you were actually doing: telling the Conservatives on here HOW they think.

no one will protest one bit about his firing. Most would actually cheer the firing.

Now the only question is: why do I doubt your sincerity this time?

:happyhappy:

My bad.

I'm so busy trying to have a life and a Christmas that I failed to elevate your post above family and the preparations for the celebration of the birth of Our Savior.
�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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« Reply #160 on: December 24, 2013, 10:08:48 PM »
Since there are no bodies laying around on either side, I think your comparison is bogus as well.

I'm damned happy that you did.

Here's an even more complex notion for you all to ponder.

Of the two people that are the subject of this article and Williams' comments, one may have a true First Amendment complaint.

That would be Martin Bashir, because the subject of his tirade is a public figure and a politician, which means that an individual in Bashir's position can say damned near anything they want with a reasonable expectation of immunity.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 10:10:08 PM by Luis Gonzalez »
�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline aligncare

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« Reply #161 on: December 24, 2013, 10:53:41 PM »

Oceander

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« Reply #162 on: December 25, 2013, 01:22:31 AM »
I'm damned happy that you did.

Here's an even more complex notion for you all to ponder.

Of the two people that are the subject of this article and Williams' comments, one may have a true First Amendment complaint.

That would be Martin Bashir, because the subject of his tirade is a public figure and a politician, which means that an individual in Bashir's position can say damned near anything they want with a reasonable expectation of immunity.

Immunity from whom and from what?  From being sued for defamation?  Sure.  From being fired by his employer, a private business?  No.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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« Reply #163 on: December 25, 2013, 11:45:37 AM »
Immunity from whom and from what?  From being sued for defamation?  Sure.  From being fired by his employer, a private business?  No.

Yes, I should have been more precise.

The point was that a political commentator making remarks about a public figure/politician enjoys some sort of First Amendment protection, where a public figure commenting on an individual or a group of individuals does not. So while the First Amendment was present in the Bashir case, even in a casual way, there was no First Amendment issue in the Robertson case.

I found it telling that Bashir "resigned" rather than being fired, and the comments that I've read tended to be supportive of the idea that MSNBC "herded" (for lack of a better word) Bashir toward resignation under advise of counsel. Better to face no litigation at all than litigation that you can win.

That was however simply lawyers speculating.
�[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State�s right to economize when necessary �� The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).


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