Politico...GOP and conservative groups: The breakup begins

[Luis Gonzalez]

The gauntlet has been thrown.  The right wing must stand up and be counted, to prove their irrelevancy.  Looks like they got 62 members of the House.  Boehner has proved he can pass legislation without the rightwing by moving left.  The whole argument of the rightwing is the GOP can't live without them, but the shutdown proved we can't live with them.

“Frankly, I just think they've lost all credibility.” - Speaker Boehner
better put some ice on that.

 

The Democrat's left flank is not all that strong, and when (if ever) they threaten to secede, it's far easier for them to move to the center to supplement lost votes than it is for the GOP to do the same, and (generally speaking) non-affiliated voters see a move to the center by Democrats as a positive thing, while the right flank of the GOP sees the same thing as a betrayal. There are more votes to be captured at the bulky center of the polity than there are at either extreme, so the GOP needs to move to the center to secure enough votes to defeat the Democrats in 2014.

That's a quagmire, however, if the T.E.A. Party wants things to "change" in DC, the first thing they have to do is win elections, and tantrums, threats and public internecine feuds do not instill confidence in voters.

[Relic]

I actually supported the shutdown. I thought it effective insofar as it clearly messaged the entire nation that the GOP would go to any length to avoid the disastrous consequences that the implementation of the ACA would have on the American people and the American economy, right before the plan was implemented, and it made the Democrats stand in support of the legislation one more time.

Sure, the shutdown cost the GOP some points in the court of public opinion, but the people's opinion of the GOP was pretty bad before the shutdown anyway.

Then implementation, website failures, lies exposed, cancellations, sticker shock, and suddenly the shutdown gambit gave the GOP the ability to paint themselves as the champion of the people.

A second shutdown has no purpose other than divert the attention of the people away from the administration's failures, so this compromise was needed to keep the public's attention focused on the ACA and Obama's failures.  So I agree with you... in all likelihood the Democrats were "negotiating" with the idea of forcing another shutdown, and that shutdown would actually be harmful for the GOP in the short-term.

I like Ted Cruz.

I like him for the same reason that Lincoln liked and supported Ulysses S. Grant. "He fights" said Lincoln about Grant, and Cruz fights too but like Grant, he needs to know when and where it is best to do so for the greater cause. 

The T.E.A. Party's influence on the GOP is commensurate to the number of chairs the occupy at the table, and that's the way it should be. If they want more influence, they need to gain more seats. If they threaten to kick the table over unless they can control the party from a minority position, they are dead wrong.

I agree with your post.

I'd like to add, that in the view of the LIVs and even the average Joes, the constant budget wars have gone beyond tiresome. There are dire warnings, and histrionics with each new battle. All the average person sees is the crying, whining, and posturing, and when it's all over, nothing changes.

The Democrats are in charge. The American people put them in charge. It's the duty of the Republicans to work with the Democrats when possible. Get the deal, take the focus off of budget. Let Democrats and the American people stew in the juices of Obamacare.

[Bigun]

I actually supported the shutdown. I thought it effective insofar as it clearly messaged the entire nation that the GOP would go to any length to avoid the disastrous consequences that the implementation of the ACA would have on the American people and the American economy, right before the plan was implemented, and it made the Democrats stand in support of the legislation one more time.

Sure, the shutdown cost the GOP some points in the court of public opinion, but the people's opinion of the GOP was pretty bad before the shutdown anyway.

Then implementation, website failures, lies exposed, cancellations, sticker shock, and suddenly the shutdown gambit gave the GOP the ability to paint themselves as the champion of the people.

A second shutdown has no purpose other than divert the attention of the people away from the administration's failures, so this compromise was needed to keep the public's attention focused on the ACA and Obama's failures.  So I agree with you... in all likelihood the Democrats were "negotiating" with the idea of forcing another shutdown, and that shutdown would actually be harmful for the GOP in the short-term.

I like Ted Cruz.

I like him for the same reason that Lincoln liked and supported Ulysses S. Grant. "He fights" said Lincoln about Grant, and Cruz fights too but like Grant, he needs to know when and where it is best to do so for the greater cause. 

The T.E.A. Party's influence on the GOP is commensurate to the number of chairs the occupy at the table, and that's the way it should be. If they want more influence, they need to gain more seats. If they threaten to kick the table over unless they can control the party from a minority position, they are dead wrong.

I agree completely and the only reason the strategy didn't work is because the milquetoast leadership didn't WANT it to work! They are committed to one thing and one thing only and that is to make sure their little inside the beltway game is preserved! They couldn't care less what it costs the rest of us!

“Until one is committed, there is a hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always,  ineffectiveness concerning all acts of initiative (and creation). There is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in ones favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no one could have dreamed would have come their way. Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.”

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe 

[Luis Gonzalez]

I agree completely and the only reason the strategy didn't work is because the milquetoast leadership didn't WANT it to work! They are committed to one thing and one thing only and that is to make sure their little inside the beltway game is preserved! They couldn't care less what it costs the rest of us!

But it did work.

The generic Congressional vote did a complete turn to favor Republicans.

This public feud endangers that.

[happyg]

But it did work.

The generic Congressional vote did a complete turn to favor Republicans.

This public feud endangers that.

True, so why is the GOP so willing to throw a huge chunk of their base to the wolves, 3d party or worse? Cruz, Lee, Rand, and a few other conservatives have been critical of non conservative issues results, but didn't attack the GOP. Are Americans not allowed to criticize? I liked Bush, but was critical of him when he went left. So what? However, Boehner and McConnell are going overboard, and not criticizing issues, but criticizing the people they need. Boehner compromised with democrats, but can't and won't compromise with his own party. He is not a leader, but a coward, who doesn't have the guts to stand by his beliefs...that is, if he has any left.

[Bigun]

True, so why is the GOP so willing to throw a huge chunk of their base to the wolves, 3d party or worse? Cruz, Lee, Rand, and a few other conservatives have been critical of non conservative issues results, but didn't attack the GOP. Are Americans not allowed to criticize? I liked Bush, but was critical of him when he went left. So what? However, Boehner and McConnell are going overboard, and not criticizing issues, but criticizing the people they need. Boehner compromised with democrats, but can't and won't compromise with his own party. He is not a leader, but a coward, who doesn't have the guts to stand by his beliefs...that is, if he has any left.

Because their game is endangered by them and nothing matters more to them than their inside the beltway game! Not the country, NOt you and not me!

[Bigun]

But it did work.

The generic Congressional vote did a complete turn to favor Republicans.

This public feud endangers that.

Yes it did! But not nearly so well as it would have had Boehner not announced surrender at the outset! The establishment MUST put it down at all costs because it endangers their little inside the beltway game! Hence the public feud!

[Luis Gonzalez]

True, so why is the GOP so willing to throw a huge chunk of their base to the wolves, 3d party or worse? Cruz, Lee, Rand, and a few other conservatives have been critical of non conservative issues results, but didn't attack the GOP. Are Americans not allowed to criticize? I liked Bush, but was critical of him when he went left. So what? However, Boehner and McConnell are going overboard, and not criticizing issues, but criticizing the people they need. Boehner compromised with democrats, but can't and won't compromise with his own party. He is not a leader, but a coward, who doesn't have the guts to stand by his beliefs...that is, if he has any left.

Americans are more than allowed to criticize, they have a right to do so, but Congressional GOP members are playing a different game than the polity, and YES, the GOP's right flank immediately attacked the agreement the moment that they learned that there was an agreement, simply because there was an agreement.

I am not seeing those feuds from the left. The DNC's left flank was not happy about this agreement either but it appears as if they are content with watching the GOP self-destruct.

We need to play politics and win elections and majorities so that we can then govern based on ideology.

That's how we got Obamacare to begin with, and that is the only way we're going to get rid of it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Yes it did, and that is why the establishment MUST put it down at all costs! Hence the public feud!

We have a disconnect here.

The GOP took a beating on the generic ballot during the period of the shutdown, but made tremendous gains immediately after that as the ACA (and Obama) self-destructed. That lead that was there has now begun to narrow, and it may be as a result of the GOP infighting.

The bulk of the polity is tired of drama politics. The budget agreement is a good thing for the GOP.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Yes it did! But not nearly so well as it would have had Boehner not announced surrender at the outset! The establishment MUST put it down at all costs because it endangers their little inside the beltway game! Hence the public feud!

Arguing from the perspective of something that did not happen is illogical. The best example of that sort of flawed logic is the Democrat's argument that Obama's stimulus was a success based on the argument that as bad as the economy has been, it would have been worse without it.

You cannot discuss the relative impact of things that didn't happen, because they didn't happen.

The reality is that just as it could have worked better, it could have also been worse. There's no way of knowing either, so it is a waste of time debating that point.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

The Democrat's left flank is not all that strong, and when (if ever) they threaten to secede, it's far easier for them to move to the center to supplement lost votes than it is for the GOP to do the same, and (generally speaking) non-affiliated voters see a move to the center by Democrats as a positive thing, while the right flank of the GOP sees the same thing as a betrayal. There are more votes to be captured at the bulky center of the polity than there are at either extreme, so the GOP needs to move to the center to secure enough votes to defeat the Democrats in 2014.

That's a quagmire, however, if the T.E.A. Party wants things to "change" in DC, the first thing they have to do is win elections, and tantrums, threats and public internecine feuds do not instill confidence in voters.

I agree.  When I see the Tea Party taking rat seats I will start taking the Tea Party seriously as a political force.  What I've seen so far is a mixed bag of primary wins in safe GOP districts and states and losses in the general election.  The TP likes to take credit for 2010.  Some credit is deserved but some of the electoral victories can be explained by simple anti-Obama sentiment not a conservative shift in the voting population.  The record since 2010 has been bland.

The Tea Party will fade as the GOP co-opt their popular positions leaving them with the fringe excesses of ideological purity.  Take a look at the stars of the Tea Party and recognize that they are the future sellouts soon to be abandoned by the right wing as Rubio found out, or they will be removed by election.  One thing they all share is a very short voting history.  Give Cruz, Lee and Paul sometime to disappoint the unappeasable right wing or watch them voted out by the majority like Santorum.

What happened to Santorum?  The right wing spent much time attacking Specter and pointing out how PA elected a real conservative.  Way more conservative than the moderate Specter.  The voters listened and kicked Santorum out.  Specter faced with support from only moderate voters had to switch to rat to have a chance at re-election.  PA now has 1 conservative(so far) Senator and one DINO.  The demand for ideological purity pushed the state to the left.

When moderate voters are given a choice of a RINO and a leftist they choose RINO.  If the choice is DINO or conservative they choose DINO.  The right wing wanted it all they got none.  Just like the shutdown.  They have learned nothing from history, but the GOPe has learned some new tricks.

The GOPe is fighting for dominance and their political lives.  The right wing would rather lose than win through compromise.  Who do you think will perceiver?

[sinkspur]

The GOPe is fighting for dominance and their political lives.  The right wing would rather lose than win through compromise.  Who do you think will perceiver?

Lose on priniciple or win on compromise. That's the choice.

Losing on principle is the Mark Levin way to power.  He actually advocated this two nights ago:  we may have to lose another two or three election cycles before we can convince enough voters to support us.

No winning strategy in ANYTHING EVER included losing.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Lose on priniciple or win on compromise. That's the choice.

Losing on principle is the Mark Levin way to power.  He actually advocated this two nights ago:  we may have to lose another two or three election cycles before we can convince enough voters to support us.

No winning strategy in ANYTHING EVER included losing.

The delusion of the right, from my perspective, is comical.  For months the right wing advertised their intention to shutdown the government to defund Obamacare.  They threatened a mass exodus of the party from conservatives if they didn't get their way, and they got their way for 2 weeks. They lead us to that point.  It all went according to plan.  Speaker Boehner passed the House with no Obamacare funding.  It went to the Senate and the RINOs asked "what now?" and then the right wing explained that "Cruz, Lee, and Paul, wait until nightfall, and then leap out of the rabbit, taking the French, uh, by surprise. Not only by surprise, but totally unarmed!"

I still read conservatives saying Obama and Reid shutdown the government because they wouldn't sign on to the plan.  What did the right wing think they would do?  Roll over and obey because of the mighty will of a dozen Senators?

They wanted to lead.  The GOPe let them.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/05/Ted-Cruz-I-need-a-grassroots-army-to-defund-Obamacare-stop-amnesty

The right wing thought a grass roots army would rise up, and demand an end to Obamacare through wishes and hot air.
The right wing showed their flaccid authority with voters when voters demanded their Obamacare.

What did the GOP gain above the 20+ votes to repeal Obamacare passed by Boehner and the GOPe...the certitude that the GOP wants Obamacare to fail.  Now anything we might suggest to ease the suffering of those poor voters stricken with Obamacare is suspect with more voters.  But that is the difference between skilled politicians and amateurs.

The right wing thought the RINOs would develop a spine against public opinion despite wall to wall talk radio coverage of the last 20 years.  Long have conservatives sniveled at the lowly RINO.  Expanding the definition to include men like Boehner, Burr, and Cornyn.  Once RINOs were Republicans like Specter and Snowe. 

The right wing doesn't understand the world and that makes them a danger if they are ever allowed to run the show again, and as Mark Levin predicts they will lose for many elections. This is what they asked for.  Irrelevancy.  They threatened a show of force.  They got it.  The voters said  The GOPe saw it.  and it was good.  Now begins the final chapter.  Soon the stories will be "How did the Tea Party fall so fast and hard?" and then the "Where Are They Now?" C-Span special.  An ironic downfall by the design of the right wing. 

Theodoric of Cruz, Medieval Senator proscribes a GOP bloodletting.  The GOPe has responded to the right wing's declaration of war with "let us start with the right arm."

Thankfully / Bizarrely they still have not figured it out.  The hand is over and the GOPe called their bluff...but they still want to play with the same cards.  In that case I'll raise again.

They think the GOPe can't find 5 RINO senators to pass a budget.  It's like a mental disorder.

Bring on the Primaries! 
The GOPe is going to smack the taste out of their mouth.
And there are only 2 things they can do about it.
Nothing.
and Like It!
If you Smell what the GOPe is Cooking!

[Luis Gonzalez]

No winning strategy in ANYTHING EVER included losing.

With the possible exception of the Colts 2011 season.