Darrell Issa to introduce immigration bill

[Millee]

Maybe obvious was too strong of a word. In my opinion illegals have given no indication that they just want to live the welfare life. They are coming here from Mexico desperately seeking work. They are willing to work hard doing jobs we don't want to do, and for less than minimum wage. I actually worked with several illegals while I was working as a plumbing assistant, and those guys were some of the most honest and hardworking coworkers I have ever had. These are people just like you and me, and they come here seeking a better life for their families. I would do the same thing in their situation.

The "free" education for their kids and "free" healthcare (our emergency rooms) are a nice perk for them too.  These hard workers are also clogging up our prisons. 

It's not all peaches and cream having them here.

[massadvj]

Maybe obvious was too strong of a word. In my opinion illegals have given no indication that they just want to live the welfare life. They are coming here from Mexico desperately seeking work, and are willing to work hard doing jobs we don't want to do, and for less than minimum wage. I actually worked with several illegals while I was working as a plumbing assistant, and those guys were some of the most honest and hardworking coworkers I have ever had. These are people just like you and me, and they come here seeking a better life for their families. I would do the same thing in their situation.

When they come here, are they coming of their own free will will, or are we forcing them?  Do they know when they come that we have immigration laws?  If so, how are we as a society morally obligated to offer them citizenship?

I say this as someone who thinks we should have free and open exchange, including the exchange of labor, with Mexico.  I'd like to see a North American common market.  But I am at a loss to understand the rationale for citizenship of immigrant workers, except that it provides votes for Democrats.

[Liberal_Spy]

The "free" education for their kids and "free" healthcare (our emergency rooms) are a nice perk for them too.  These hard workers are also clogging up our prisons. 

It's not all peaches and cream having them here.

Everybody is clogging up our prisons. The amount of people we arrest and throw in prison over ridiculous charges is obscene. Maybe if we didn't have prisons for profit you wouldn't see that kind of thing happen so much. You're right, though, it's not that easy, and I also understand that millions of illegals becoming citizens would be bad for the right wing.

[Liberal_Spy]

When they come here, are they coming of their own free will will, or are we forcing them?  Do they know when they come that we have immigration laws?  If so, how are we as a society morally obligated to offer them citizenship?

I say this as someone who thinks we should have free and open exchange, including the exchange of labor, with Mexico.  I'd like to see a North American common market.  But I am at a loss to understand the rationale for citizenship of immigrant workers, except that it provides votes for Democrats.

I don't think we are obligated to do anything. I don't even necessarily support all of the illegals getting citizenship. It is a very sensitive issue with a lot to consider, and like I said in my earlier post, I recognize the threat they pose to the right wing. I actually like your common market idea. I just don't like it when illegals are blamed for things that are not their fault, like the lack of jobs in this country. I also don't believe that if given citizenship all of the illegals would become a bunch of welfare leeching Democrats.

[Millee]

Everybody is clogging up our prisons. The amount of people we arrest and throw in prison over ridiculous charges is obscene. Maybe if we didn't have prisons for profit you wouldn't see that kind of thing happen so much. You're right, though, it's not that easy, and I also understand that millions of illegals becoming citizens would be bad for the right wing.

And because they have no loyalty to our country and Constitution they'd fit right in with the democrats.

[massadvj]

I don't think we are obligated to do anything. I don't even necessarily support all of the illegals getting citizenship. It is a very sensitive issue with a lot to consider, and like I said in my earlier post, I recognize the threat they pose to the right wing. I actually like your common market idea. I just don't like it when illegals are blamed for things that are not their fault, like the lack of jobs in this country. I also don't believe that if given citizenship all of the illegals would become a bunch of welfare leeching Democrats.

It's a problem because we have suddenly become a country in which citizenship confers financial benefits.  It was not originally intended to be this way.  Originally, the intent of the constitution of the USA was to confer rights upon people and to ensure those rights were enforced.  It was not to provide a livelihood to people in exchange for their voting for a particular political party.

The whole purpose of immigration laws is to protect socialism.  As Milton Friedman said, a socialist nation with open borders will collapse upon itself.  That's why I believe open borders ultimately protect us from socialism.

There does not seem to be room for an open borders person in the current debate, however.  One side wants to give away the farm and the other side wants to take away an inalienable human freedom (property rights, ie my labor is my property) from people.

[GourmetDan]

The whole purpose of immigration laws is to protect socialism.  As Milton Friedman said, a socialist nation with open borders will collapse upon itself.  That's why I believe open borders ultimately protect us from socialism.

Great point.  It has been a while, but people used to be able to go anywhere in the world that they could afford to go.

Marco Polo would have never been heard of...

[MBB1984]

Then get rid of the social welfare system.  Isn't that the real problem?  Why preserve it for citizen leaches. 
"How do we get rid of the social welfare system Once-Ler?" you may ask.

You stop funding it. 

Thanks Sen Cruz.   
Everything is so clear when you simplify down to meaningless phrases.

You and I know that is not going to happen.  If they are not going to stop welfare for illegal aliens, they will never stop any welfare funding.  The best we can do is minimize its spread for criminal invaders.

[Rapunzel]

Don't forget the EIC - Illegals are CLEANING up on collecting money from us through the EIC.

The IG’s finding:

“Individuals Who Are Not Authorized to Work in the United States Were Paid $4.2 Billion in Refundable Credits.”

The credits currently amount to $1,000 per child, and they are “refundable,” meaning that parents may receive refunds even when they do not owe any tax.

The IG report stated that more than 2.3 million persons who did not have Social Security numbers valid for working in the U.S. got an average of roughly $1,800 each in 2010 in child tax credit refunds. That included 9,000 illegal immigrants who each got a total of $10,000 or more by retroactively claiming credits for tax years prior to 2010.

[jmyrlefuller]

There is no reason to believe 20 million will want to be citizens.  Many may just want to work and earn a living.

Perhaps not, but you can bet the Democratic Party will want them to be, and will use every tool in the government store to assure it.