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Offline alicewonders

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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2013, 10:41:38 PM »
I remember when the 'classical' left stood for unshackled liberty. Now, they are nothing but government sycophants willing to trade in their liberty for a government check.

You got that right AC.  Whatever happened to the freedom to do whatever we want?  I can't believe that anyone who calls themself a "liberal" is on board with the government spying on their every activity.   

I think a lot of them tell themselves they are being compassionate by being liberal, that THEY and they alone are truly compassionate because they want to take my money from me and give it to someone else.  But, it's so cruel to sentence someone to a lifetime of government dependency - it's really just one rung above outright slavery.     
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Liberal_Spy

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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2013, 10:51:04 PM »
I can't believe that anyone who calls themself a "liberal" is on board with the government spying on their every activity.   



I haven't seen any liberals claim to be okay with the NSA spying. I was under the impression that this was an outrage for pretty much everybody. The places I get my news from are full of liberals that are absolutely beside themselves over this.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 10:55:49 PM by Liberal_Spy »

Offline musiclady

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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2013, 10:56:23 PM »
Right to the point! One could almost respect the common thief. At least he knows he's a thief. But these Democrats revel in legalized thievery and don't even bat an eye.

Ditto that!

I think it's the hypocrisy of liberals that makes me the angriest.

They say exactly the opposite of what they mean, they do exactly the opposite of what they say, they treat the poor like dirt, they despise women, they hate free thought.............it's despicable.

That's why I don't trust ANYONE who self-identifies as a liberal.

They are NEVER what they claim to be.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline alicewonders

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« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2013, 10:58:42 PM »
I haven't seen any liberals claim to be okay with the NSA spying. I was under the impression that this was an outrage for pretty much everybody. The places I get my news sources from is full of liberals that are absolutely beside themselves over this.

So, if you and other liberals are outraged by the NSA stuff, and I assume there are other things you are pissed about that you might not want to admit out loud - with the way Obama is doing things - do you see any movement afoot for fed-up liberals to start their own Tea Bagger party?
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Offline musiclady

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« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2013, 11:00:12 PM »
You got that right AC.  Whatever happened to the freedom to do whatever we want?  I can't believe that anyone who calls themself a "liberal" is on board with the government spying on their every activity.   

I think a lot of them tell themselves they are being compassionate by being liberal, that THEY and they alone are truly compassionate because they want to take my money from me and give it to someone else.  But, it's so cruel to sentence someone to a lifetime of government dependency - it's really just one rung above outright slavery.   

I think it IS outright slavery, alice.

And liberals actually want that for people.  Total dependence.

I heard a great quote tonight from a preacher on the radio, and I tried to get it all down, but only got the gist of it....

"Government grows in direct proportion to the lack of character of a people."

The left completely lacks character, and their desire is to literally enslave the American people.

I just pray that the American people have the character to stand up against these charlatans.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Liberal_Spy

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« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2013, 11:02:57 PM »
So, if you and other liberals are outraged by the NSA stuff, and I assume there are other things you are pissed about that you might not want to admit out loud - with the way Obama is doing things - do you see any movement afoot for fed-up liberals to start their own Tea Bagger party?

That's what Occupy Wall Street was for liberals, but that was thoroughly shut down by the government. A lot of liberals I talk to want to completely defund the NSA and start throwing these guys in prison.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:08:28 PM by Liberal_Spy »

Offline alicewonders

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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2013, 11:24:03 PM »
That's what Occupy Wall Street was for liberals, but that was thoroughly shut down by the government. A lot of liberals I talk to want to completely defund the NSA and start throwing these guys in prison.

I have a good friend who is - alas - a pretty flaming liberal.  We try not to talk politics, but sometimes the subject comes up.  When we talk about things like the spying, the drones, the thought police/hate crimes, the War on Drugs, Monsanto's genetically modified stuff...etc - we are in pretty good agreement with each other that we hate it.  But I've yet to get him to a place where he could consider joining a libertarian movement.  He thinks Republicans should be jailed, but can't bring himself to say the same for the Democrats.  I pretty much put most of them in the same group.
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2013, 11:31:16 PM »
I have a good friend who is - alas - a pretty flaming liberal.  We try not to talk politics, but sometimes the subject comes up.  When we talk about things like the spying, the drones, the thought police/hate crimes, the War on Drugs, Monsanto's genetically modified stuff...etc - we are in pretty good agreement with each other that we hate it.  But I've yet to get him to a place where he could consider joining a libertarian movement.  He thinks Republicans should be jailed, but can't bring himself to say the same for the Democrats.  I pretty much put most of them in the same group.

The Democrats are taking corporate bribes just like Republicans are. I don't think getting millions of dollars of funding from corporations and special interests should be a mandatory part of having a chance at winning the presidential election. I think the NSA spying is completely outrageous, and I consider Edward Snowden a hero for what he did. I think the federal government is long overdue for a reality check, and needs to be reminded who is really in charge.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:32:00 PM by Liberal_Spy »

Offline alicewonders

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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2013, 11:51:22 PM »
The Democrats are taking corporate bribes just like Republicans are. I don't think getting millions of dollars of funding from corporations and special interests should be a mandatory part of having a chance at winning the presidential election. I think the NSA spying is completely outrageous, and I consider Edward Snowden a hero for what he did. I think the federal government is long overdue for a reality check, and needs to be reminded who is really in charge.

Yep.  It's long overdue for a thorough housecleaning.  Career politicians are repulsive - like cockroaches, flies and fleas.  I think we are on the cusp of amazing and frightening change - it is crackling in the air like electricity.  If all the ordinary people would rise up to reclaim their lost freedoms and re-assert themselves as the boss of THEM - NOT the other way around -  we could be on the cusp of a historic revolution. 

I've been pretty depressed about it, but lately my spidey sense is getting little tingles, I hope I'm not disappointed again.   

I think we owe Edward Snowden a huge debt.       
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Liberal_Spy

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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2013, 11:56:58 PM »
Yep.  It's long overdue for a thorough housecleaning.  Career politicians are repulsive - like cockroaches, flies and fleas.  I think we are on the cusp of amazing and frightening change - it is crackling in the air like electricity.  If all the ordinary people would rise up to reclaim their lost freedoms and re-assert themselves as the boss of THEM - NOT the other way around -  we could be on the cusp of a historic revolution. 

I've been pretty depressed about it, but lately my spidey sense is getting little tingles, I hope I'm not disappointed again.   

I think we owe Edward Snowden a huge debt.     

That crackling might be the sound of the military grade weapons the police will start using to combat protesters. I think we're definitely standing at the precipice of monumental change, but what that change is is still up in the air. Are we going to fly or fall down and crash into the rocks below?

Offline alicewonders

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« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2013, 12:20:26 AM »
I won't go down quietly. 
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Offline EC

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« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2013, 12:28:40 AM »
That crackling might be the sound of the military grade weapons the police will start using to combat protesters. I think we're definitely standing at the precipice of monumental change, but what that change is is still up in the air. Are we going to fly or fall down and crash into the rocks below?

Old hang gliders saying: "You ain't going to fly without being willing to jump."
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Liberal_Spy

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« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2013, 12:46:33 AM »
Old hang gliders saying: "You ain't going to fly without being willing to jump."

I am way too much of a wimp to hang glide. They'd end up having to scrape me off the side of some mountain.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 12:47:10 AM by Liberal_Spy »

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2013, 04:25:55 AM »
That's what Occupy Wall Street was for liberals, but that was thoroughly shut down by the government. A lot of liberals I talk to want to completely defund the NSA and start throwing these guys in prison.

If you think the Occupy movement was anything to applaud then you are further gone than I thought.  You would never see women being raped at a Tea Party gathering or people chanting in unison what some person standing at the front of the crowd told them to chant... remember many of us lived through the 60's and the day of the REAL hippies, the Occupy kids were mostly just spoiled rotten little rich kids with too much time on their hands, the Tea Party supporters actually want to do something positive in America.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Online aligncare

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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2013, 06:54:04 AM »
Excellent, Rap. Occupy had no central, unified focus. It was the chaotic ramblings of hundreds of discordant voices. The Tea Party is as clear as a bell, a Liberty Bell. A call for return to constitutional government. Not this, this THING in DC that steals our money and with that, our liberty. And then has the gall to force on our lives and businesses thousands of regulations or be fined or jailed or both.

Offline 240B

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« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2013, 08:04:48 AM »
Excellent, Rap. Occupy had no central, unified focus. It was the chaotic ramblings of hundreds of discordant voices. The Tea Party is as clear as a bell, a Liberty Bell. A call for return to constitutional government. Not this, this THING in DC that steals our money and with that, our liberty. And then has the gall to force on our lives and businesses thousands of regulations or be fined or jailed or both.


I went to and hung out for a whole day at the 'occupy' camp in my city. You are correct to say that it was a discordant cacophony of a hundred different issues. Some people there were purely mercantile selling some product "for the people". The most notable was several credit unions were there 'protesting' and handing out applications to get rid of the 'commercial banks'. lol yeah right. And there were people selling flags, and masks, and signs, etc. Pretty cool operation for supposed 'anti-profit communists'. lol


Some people were there just to hang out and exploit the situation. Lots of homeless and just general weirdos were involved. Many businesses were ostensibly 'supporting' the movement, so there was a steady supply of donuts, and pizzas, and fresh sandwiches.  I had some of this and it was delicious. No one I saw there was going hungry.


Also there were girls. Some runaways, some drug addicted. But they were, from what I could see, pretty easy picking.  And, at times it was just plain fun. Camping out, yelling in the streets, and waving flags, and just generally acting up, it was kind of a block party.


But, back to the point, there was no central 'theme' or 'goal', it was just a bunch of people out 'protesting' without having a clear idea of what they were protesting or what they expected to accomplish.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2013, 08:29:42 AM »
I haven't seen any liberals claim to be okay with the NSA spying. I was under the impression that this was an outrage for pretty much everybody. The places I get my news from are full of liberals that are absolutely beside themselves over this.

I have.  They are even center-left types, not full on liberals.  Several of my friends fully supported this when the scandal first broke. 

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« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2013, 08:35:27 AM »
If you think the Occupy movement was anything to applaud then you are further gone than I thought.  You would never see women being raped at a Tea Party gathering or people chanting in unison what some person standing at the front of the crowd told them to chant... remember many of us lived through the 60's and the day of the REAL hippies, the Occupy kids were mostly just spoiled rotten little rich kids with too much time on their hands, the Tea Party supporters actually want to do something positive in America.

There were lots of Tea Party members participating in the OWS movement, just for the record. You're right about lack of organization, but what it did have was a LOT of people that understood and were sick of the problem. I didn't hear anything about women getting raped, but I guess it's possible that it happened with so many people in one place. The mainstream media did everything in its power to try to discredit OWS and make it look bad. They wanted everybody to think it was a bunch of homeless drunks and stupid kids, because by giving it that image, people wouldn't take it seriously. You yourself have talked about how corrupt the media and journalism has become; is it really so outside of the ream of possibility that they would do that?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 08:37:28 AM by Liberal_Spy »

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« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2013, 08:38:05 AM »
I have.  They are even center-left types, not full on liberals.  Several of my friends fully supported this when the scandal first broke.

You can go ahead and tell them that unshackled, free thinking liberals are absolutely ashamed of them.

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« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2013, 08:48:32 AM »

I went to and hung out for a whole day at the 'occupy' camp in my city. You are correct to say that it was a discordant cacophony of a hundred different issues. Some people there were purely mercantile selling some product "for the people". The most notable was several credit unions were there 'protesting' and handing out applications to get rid of the 'commercial banks'. lol yeah right. And there were people selling flags, and masks, and signs, etc. Pretty cool operation for supposed 'anti-profit communists'. lol


Some people were there just to hang out and exploit the situation. Lots of homeless and just general weirdos were involved. Many businesses were ostensibly 'supporting' the movement, so there was a steady supply of donuts, and pizzas, and fresh sandwiches.  I had some of this and it was delicious. No one I saw there was going hungry.


Also there were girls. Some runaways, some drug addicted. But they were, from what I could see, pretty easy picking.  And, at times it was just plain fun. Camping out, yelling in the streets, and waving flags, and just generally acting up, it was kind of a block party.


But, back to the point, there was no central 'theme' or 'goal', it was just a bunch of people out 'protesting' without having a clear idea of what they were protesting or what they expected to accomplish.

They knew exactly what they wanted. Their message was that the banks and corporations are corrupting our politicians and ruining our lives. The local, smaller occupy movements I can't really speak for. They were definitely very disorganized and severely lacked the numbers the main movement had. The movement also started to look bad towards the very end, because most of the sane people had gone home after cops had started beating the crap out of peaceful protesters.

Offline mountaineer

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« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2013, 09:19:22 AM »
Quote
most of the sane people had gone home after cops had started beating the crap out of peaceful protesters.
Here we go.  :whistle:
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Offline musiclady

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« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2013, 09:39:47 AM »
If you think the Occupy movement was anything to applaud then you are further gone than I thought.  You would never see women being raped at a Tea Party gathering or people chanting in unison what some person standing at the front of the crowd told them to chant... remember many of us lived through the 60's and the day of the REAL hippies, the Occupy kids were mostly just spoiled rotten little rich kids with too much time on their hands, the Tea Party supporters actually want to do something positive in America.

Brava!

Tea Party gatherings are filled with law-abiding citizens united in purpose (my avatar was from 9/12 - AWESOME experience).  There were senior citizens in wheelchairs, families with small children, college professors and professionals........every day citizens standing up against an out of control government.

OWS was a disparate gang of thugs, violent, destructive, filthy, and purposeless.

The Tea Party has been castigated by the MSM, and OWS revered.

The idea that the MSM misrepresented the OWS movement in a negative way is an absolute pile of trash.

We have a liar in our midst, folks.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

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« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2013, 09:43:50 AM »
Brava!

Tea Party gatherings are filled with law-abiding citizens united in purpose (my avatar was from 9/12 - AWESOME experience).  There were senior citizens in wheelchairs, families with small children, college professors and professionals........every day citizens standing up against an out of control government.

OWS was a disparate gang of thugs, violent, destructive, filthy, and purposeless.

The Tea Party has been castigated by the MSM, and OWS revered.

The idea that the MSM misrepresented the OWS movement in a negative way is an absolute pile of trash.

We have a liar in our midst, folks.

You know the way you view OWS is almost exactly how the left wing views the Tea Party, right? Do you think it might be possible that MSM paints a bad image of ANY movement that takes a negative tone towards our government?

Offline 240B

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« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2013, 09:51:48 AM »
They knew exactly what they wanted. Their message was that the banks and corporations are corrupting our politicians and ruining our lives. The local, smaller occupy movements I can't really speak for. They were definitely very disorganized and severely lacked the numbers the main movement had. The movement also started to look bad towards the very end, because most of the sane people had gone home after cops had started beating the crap out of peaceful protesters.

What you said is perfect. It is a perfect example of the cliche' idea people have of what it was all about, spoken by people who were not actually involved. I went to one of their 'town meetings'. Everything from PETA, to Greenpeace, to Homosexual activists, to Environmentalists, to Feminists, to Abortion rights and Planned Parenthood, and on and on and on, were there. It was chaos. It devolved into a disorganized yelling match with each group trying to push their agenda ahead of all the others. It was a mess and most people stormed out disgusted.
 
I understand this romatic vision you have about what OWS was, but it is a fantasy. The reality of the situation was much different than your idealized view of the 'movement', if you can call it that. 
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

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« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2013, 09:58:24 AM »

What you said is perfect. It is a perfect example of the cliche' idea people have of what it was all about, spoken by people who were not actually involved. I went to one of their 'town meetings'. Everything from PETA, to Greenpeace, to Homosexual activists, to Environmentalists, to Feminists, to Abortion rights and Planned Parenthood, and on and on and on, were there. It was chaos. It devolved into a disorganized yelling match with each group trying to push their agenda ahead of all the others. It was a mess and most people stormed out disgusted.
 
I understand this romatic vision you have about what OWS was, but it is a fantasy. The reality of the situation was much different than your idealized view of the 'movement', if you can call it that.

OWS was huge, and involved many, many people. Also, for the record, I was involved. Your personal experience of going to one town meeting at one point in time and having a bad experience does not qualify you to speak for what the entire movement was about, in my opinion.


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