OBAMACARE HAS ‘RAPED MY FUTURE,’ COLLEGE GRAD SAYS IN VIRAL LETTER

[NavyCanDo]

I've spent a lot of time studying both, actually. This isn't the first conservative forum I have posted on. The thing that has been a shock to me is how much the left and right would actually agree on if they could put aside their differences and talk about the big problems.

You are referring to the 1980s.    A time when House Speaker Tip O’Neill and President Ronald Reagan though they disagreed on many issues and would battle over policies, had a great respect for each other and a genuine friendship.   That was before the Alinskyites gained control.   Saul Alinsky said negotiating only gives credibility to your enemy, so never negotiate. Pick up his book Rules for Radicals, and read it, and then come back and tell us the political arena is the same as it ever was.   

[Liberal_Spy]

You are a member who posts at the pleasure of fellow members.  You will not address specific questions.

Earlier, I recommended "The Road to Serfdom":  No response
Earlier, I asked about your specific military branch/outfit:  No response

Asking again, respond please.

I looked up and browsed the wiki for the book you recommended.

I served in the Army. My rank when I got out was e4. My MOS was 25N and I was in the signal battalion. I went to basic training at Fort Jackson, SC, and did my MOS training at Fort Gordon, Georgia.

[musiclady]

I admire and respect your conviction. I understand it must be frustrating for somebody you feel is ignorant and part of the problem to come into your territory and start talking about things you don't want to hear. We simply have a fundamental disagreement on what some of the problems are and how you fix them.

I NEVER 'want to hear' lies, LS.

Do you??

Then why do you think any of us 'want to hear' the lies you've been spouting?

It's not just a 'fundamental disagreement' when we are stating the truth, and you are not.

I understand that your generation has not been taught the difference between right and wrong, and that situation ethics prevail in your thought process, as a liberal, but moral law really exists, and when you come here spouting propaganda from the left, you are violating that moral law.

Once again.........don't blame your flaws on us.  Don't blame us for a negative reaction to false accusations.

It's very liberal of you, but it's also not very grown-up.

[famousdayandyear]

I looked up and browsed the wiki for the book you recommended.

I served in the Army. My rank when I got out was e4. My MOS was 25N and I was in the signal battalion. I went to basic training at Fort Jackson, SC, and did my MOS training at Fort Gordon, Georgia.

When you state you "got out" -- what does that mean?  Usually service members state they were "discharged" with some qualifier,  such as honorable.  What years did you serve?

[Liberal_Spy]

When you state you "got out" -- what does that mean?  Usually service members state they were "discharged" with some qualifier,  such as honorable.  What years did you serve?

I got out after 3 years with an honorable medical discharge. I could dig up my discharge folder and take a screenshot if you really don't believe me or something.

[Relic]

Just out of curiosity, do you support the message of these protesters?

http://imgur.com/dc4E4PK

http://imgur.com/SGm4a87

http://imgur.com/FvcGQ5f

http://imgur.com/uEJqru0

http://imgur.com/mJ9GCRo

First one - Sure, it's cute. An African Lion vs. a Lyin' African. Obama is African by descent, isn't he?
Second - A little over the top.
Third - Yep. Dixie Chickin' is a reference to Natalie Mains trashing Bush while overseas. And Obama's father is Kenyan, is he not? Michelle even called Kenya Obama's home.
Fourth - No. Absolutely not.
Fifth - No. I hate racists who can't spell.

Now, here's the meat of the issue. You found some Tea Party types who were racist. Ok. I would even accept that some of the motivating force in Obama opposition is racism. But what did these people do? They made signs that they took home, and disposed of properly. What did OWS do? Camp out, trash places, poop in public, break laws, do drugs, and generally try to foul up wherever they decided to camp. Oh, and they tried to blow up a bridge.

The equivalence is not there.

[Liberal_Spy]

First one - Sure, it's cute. An African Lion vs. a Lyin' African. Obama is African by descent, isn't he?
Second - A little over the top.
Third - Yep. Dixie Chickin' is a reference to Natalie Mains trashing Bush while overseas. And Obama's father is Kenyan, is he not? Michelle even called Kenya Obama's home.
Fourth - No. Absolutely not.
Fifth - No. I hate racists who can't spell.

Now, here's the meat of the issue. You found some Tea Party types who were racist. Ok. I would even accept that some of the motivating force in Obama opposition is racism. But what did these people do? They made signs that they took home, and disposed of properly. What did OWS do? Camp out, trash places, poop in public, break laws, do drugs, and generally try to foul up wherever they decided to camp. Oh, and they tried to blow up a bridge.

The equivalence is not there.

Mostly what I was getting at is everybody has idiots in their party that get focused on too much. How many liberals have told you that the Tea Party is just a bunch of racists? Isn't that stupid? These people don't represent all of you, but they are out there, and they make you look bad. We have those too, but they don't represent all of us. Some of the people in those giant protests were undoubtedly complete idiots, and did stupid shit that made everybody else look bad, but that doesn't mean they are all like that.

[musiclady]

First one - Sure, it's cute. An African Lion vs. a Lyin' African. Obama is African by descent, isn't he?
Second - A little over the top.
Third - Yep. Dixie Chickin' is a reference to Natalie Mains trashing Bush while overseas. And Obama's father is Kenyan, is he not? Michelle even called Kenya Obama's home.
Fourth - No. Absolutely not.
Fifth - No. I hate racists who can't spell.

Now, here's the meat of the issue. You found some Tea Party types who were racist. Ok. I would even accept that some of the motivating force in Obama opposition is racism. But what did these people do? They made signs that they took home, and disposed of properly. What did OWS do? Camp out, trash places, poop in public, break laws, do drugs, and generally try to foul up wherever they decided to camp. Oh, and they tried to blow up a bridge.

The equivalence is not there.

Additional thoughts here.....

Five photos of five individuals.  They could be real, they could be plants.

The truth is, that at ANY of the Tea Party events I've attended, large and small, including hundreds of thousands of people and thousands of posters, there was not ONE like that, and anyone with a sign like any of those would have been asked to remove it by the people running the event.

Contrast that with large scale physical evidence of filth, human feces, violence, rapes, disease, broken windows, law-breaking at multiple OWS events, and you have a truthful picture.

This guy may have gone to one event that was rational (I think there were a few), but that was the exception.

He just doesn't want to admit the truth about the garbage he associates himself with.

[musiclady]

Mostly what I was getting at is everybody has idiots in their party that get focused on too much. How many liberals have told you that the Tea Party is just a bunch of racists? Isn't that stupid? These people don't represent all of you, but they are out there, and they make you look bad. We have those too, but they don't represent all of us. Some of the people in those giant protests were undoubtedly complete idiots, and did stupid shit that made everybody else look bad, but that doesn't mean they are all like that.

I was at a "giant" protest in DC and there was not ONE racist sign, not ONE arrest, not ONE act of violence.

I didn't even hear any profanity, and I mingled among hundreds and hundreds of people.

So you found a few signs from a handful of outliers.

NO equivalence.

If you learn one thing in your sojourn here, try to understand how much you have swallowed the lies from your fellow leftists, not only about the Tea Party, but about OWS and everything else.

[Bigun]

There is a vote going on right now in the general discussion forum deciding on whether or not I should be banned from this website. If you disapprove of my presence here, I encourage you to go vote to have me banned. I'm sorry that you feel like I'm trolling. I came here to exchange ideas with a crowd of people that disagrees with a lot of what I have to say. It was both a personal challenge and an attempt to become more well rounded by better understanding the conservative perspective. Nothing I've said has been insulting or rude towards anybody on this forum.

'

I voted to let you stay but now wish I had waited a day or two before casting my vote. I very much dislike "preaching to choir" - a lot of which goes on here -  and would love to have a conversation with someone honestly seeking answers but sadly I don't any longer think you fit that bill.

[NavyCanDo]

I got out after 3 years with an honorable medical discharge. I could dig up my discharge folder and take a screenshot if you really don't believe me or something.

Well one difference between you and me, is I went into the military a Democrat, and came out a solid Republican.    And if there was one single person who had the greatest impact on me turning Republican it had to be Jimmy Carter. When I was at age to start finding a part time job there was none to be had. I was hopelessly discouraged.  I would turn in an entry level application and they would all tell me the same story, “we’re not hiring, but we will take your application.” And then it would be placed on top of a pile a foot high.  Date money came from mowing lawns. This was the malaise Carter spoke about.  First came the energy crises. I still find it hard to believe he asked America not to put up Christmas lights one year, and the odd-even gas lines, and if you want to stay warm put a sweater on he said.   Yea, I saw the light. And a few years later my solid Roosevelt-loving Democrat Dad did as well. I would have never dreamed he would one day vote Republican.  And now that the “malaise” is back I pray moderates get shaken from the trance Obama has them in and wake up!

Oh and when I left the Navy during  Reagan’s term, help wanted signs were everywhere in my home town.  There was a building boom with strip malls going up everywhere and new housing. It was a different world that the home town of 1977 I left.

[Liberal_Spy]

'

I voted to let you stay but now wish I had waited a day or two before casting my vote. I very much dislike "preaching to choir" - a lot of which goes on here -  and would love to have a conversation with someone honestly seeking answers but sadly I don't any longer think you fit that bill.

I'm sorry you feel that way. If at any point the majority of people here seem to not want me here I will leave. I'm not here to cause any problems.

[Relic]

Mostly what I was getting at is everybody has idiots in their party that get focused on too much. How many liberals have told you that the Tea Party is just a bunch of racists? Isn't that stupid? These people don't represent all of you, but they are out there, and they make you look bad. We have those too, but they don't represent all of us. Some of the people in those giant protests were undoubtedly complete idiots, and did stupid shit that made everybody else look bad, but that doesn't mean they are all like that.

I would grant that there were people that were part of OWS that genuinely wanted to make a difference. I would also believe that there were some basically good people that took part. While I disagree with their methodology and question their understanding of the situation, I do question income disparity as well. The problem is not conservatives and Republicans. The problem, in many cases, is the improper relationship between boards of directors and management staff. But, that's another thread.

What I did see, is that there was a preponderance of the outliers in OWS vs. idiots at Tea Party events. (See the graphics provided by Lando).

And somehow, the media managed to portray the Tea Party as racist extremists and OWS as just a bunch of fun loving kids with a purpose. It's that kind of thing that really chaps my behind.

[Bigun]

May I recommend taking the time to read a very short treatise entitled:
"The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich A. Hayek.  (Easily available)

In your search for truth, this little book can be of immense value and highly
recommended as a great introduction to the subject you are so passionately pursuing.

It would be very helpful in your quest.

  and 

[Bigun]

I think human beings, creatures capable of empathy, compassion, love, and many other emotions have a moral obligation to help those in need, those less fortunate than they are. I feel that no human life is inherently better or more important than another, and that all most people really want is to live a nice, happy life where they can raise their children in peace. I support anything that makes it easier for every day people to live comfortably and in peace. I'm on this site to study and better understand the mindset of a conglomerate of people that have a lot of opinions that are drastically different than my own. It is interesting to be inside of and see the conservative perspective. My questions are genuine; I'm interested in seeing the logic that pulls together the thought process that creates your ideology.

So do I!  The difference is that I think it should done VOLUNTARILY!  Your side thinks I should be COMPELLED to do it!  We are OCEANS apart!

[NavyCanDo]

I didn't even hear any profanity, and I mingled among hundreds and hundreds of people.
So you found a few signs from a handful of outliers.

Same here. I’ve been to a number of conservative rallies, some affiliated with the Tea Party, others not. And the only provocative signs were from the Lyndon LaRouche movement who infiltrated the ranks. They were the ones with the Obama with Hitler mustache signs the Tea Party was falsely blamed for.  This same “leftist” group put Hitler mustaches on every President regardless of party. They have been doing so as far back as Sharpie has been making black markers

[Bigun]

OWS is practically silent now that Romney has been defeated.  It was a manufactured "astroturf" movement funded by George Soros and other globalists who wanted to accomplish two things: (1) make use of the young, useful idiots who might otherwise question why they got screwed by Obama and his Wall Street buddies; and (2) make Romney unpalatable to the young.

Both objectives having been accomplished, the "movement" has all but disappeared.  One thing about millennials: having been raised on the Internet, they have become used to trusting their short attention spans to achieve instant gratification.  They are incapable of understanding anything, including politics, in depth.

 

[truth_seeker]

I've spent a lot of time studying both, actually. This isn't the first conservative forum I have posted on. The thing that has been a shock to me is how much the left and right would actually agree on if they could put aside their differences and talk about the big problems.

I think the left and right would agree that Obama gave away the store, to a few big banks.

They have way, way too much power and money.

100 years ago big oil was broken up, and for decades we were fearful of monopoly, concentration of power and corporate money.

Now the trend is the other way, kill off and merge small/medium business into a handful of mega monsters.

I am in favor of massive reform of the financial industry.

[musiclady]

Same here. I’ve been to a number of conservative rallies, some affiliated with the Tea Party, others not. And the only provocative signs were from the Lyndon LaRouche movement who infiltrated the ranks. They were the ones with the Obama with Hitler mustache signs the Tea Party was falsely blamed for.  This same “leftist” group put Hitler mustaches on every President regardless of party. They have been doing so as far back as Sharpie has been making black markers

I'm guessing that the average brainwashed pseudo-journalist in the MSM doesn't have a clue as to who LaRouche was, and how his people were NOT Tea Party people at all.

ALL the Hitler stuff was done by leftists.  It's what they do.

[aligncare]

I'm working today helping the poor (me), so I haven't been able to get in on this juicy discussion. --Let me quickly say, famous, now, relax... yes, I thinks it's good to hear what L_S has to say. In fact I sense he's genuine in wanting to find common ground. Establishment pubbies and 'rats aren't getting the job done, right?  So maybe we could learn a little something from the opposition--who may in fact be here in good faith.

If he should happen to spew lies, we're big boys and girls, we can handle it. Besides, the Amen choir gets a little boring after a while. Don'tcha think?

What I notice since our friend L_S has dared to thread among us are the dozens of excellent posts that have been generated in response to the "opposition" he presents. So, yeah, bring it on L_S. I like being challenged. And I've always suspected the are some points of overlap between the extreme right and left.

Another thing I've noticed about engaging in political forums is the growth that takes place in one's own world view. I'm much more libertarian now than when I first became politically aware and voted for Papa Bush back in the day.

[Bigun]

OK...........I changed my mind.  I'm going to addres this.

If you truly believed and understood the first part of this, you'd be a conservative.

Liberal policies hurt people.  They hurt the poor most of all.  They create a dependency that is akin to slavery (this has been said before on this thread).  Since the Great Society began, poor families have been destroyed, the black family has been virtually eliminated, people have been harmed, cities have fallen into ruin, while people on your side of the debate keep arguing that it is the conservatives who don't care about the poor.

Conservatism helps people achieve.  It rewards achievement.  It provides tools for achievement.

We are not content to feed the poor.  We want to help the poor feed themselves.

As for me, as an individual, and a Christian, I take very seriously the Biblical command to take care of the poor, the widow and orphans.

But I also note that there is nothing in that about governments doing it.  Only individuals, and churches.  (I suppose that's because of how corrupt governments tend to become......especially dictatorial ones like Obama's).

What happens when the pie in the sky liberal says, "Let Government do everything," is that the government gets rich and the poor stay poor.  (btw, liberals do very little individually to help people in need, while conservatives do a great deal.  If you think government is going to take care of everyone and everything, you see no need to help others personally.  WE do).
 
There are generations of welfare families who are condemned to stay there because of (possibly) well intentioned people, and greedy, corrupt politicians.

Conservatives want the safety net for those who really can't help themselves.  But there are people who could work, who are healthy and able, who are sitting at home watching TV (or like the guy in CA, surfing).    The Welfare Reform that took place in the 90's (thanks to a Republican House), has been removed by Obama, and the poor are getting poorer, while his Wall Street and union buddies are getting richer.

If that's what you really want, stay liberal.

If you really want people to rise out of poverty, support conservatism.

BRAVO! You have distilled it down to it's essence!

The left wants to "do good" by reaching into the pockets of everyone except themselves (and enrich themselves in the process)!  You and I believe that we should do it on our own and not go around crowing about it afterwards!  A VAST difference!

[musiclady]

I'm sorry you feel that way. If at any point the majority of people here seem to not want me here I will leave. I'm not here to cause any problems.

Let me ask you a question (which I hope you will actually answer)....

Why do you support the racism of liberalism?  Why do you support the anti-Semitism of liberals?  Why do you think of African-Americans as incapable of taking care of themselves?  Why do you think they are less able than whites?

I've always wanted an honest answer from a liberal as to why he or she supports the racism rampant in today's liberalism.

You see, I HATE racism.  I HATE it.

That's part of why I despise the current administration and current liberalism.

[GourmetDan]

I voted to let you stay but now wish I had waited a day or two before casting my vote. I very much dislike "preaching to choir" - a lot of which goes on here -  and would love to have a conversation with someone honestly seeking answers but sadly I don't any longer think you fit that bill.

He's been leading you people around by the nose since he got here.

Wake up...

[Relic]

Well one difference between you and me, is I went into the military a Democrat, and came out a solid Republican.    And if there was one single person who had the greatest impact on me turning Republican it had to be Jimmy Carter. When I was at age to start finding a part time job there was none to be had. I was hopelessly discouraged.  I would turn in an entry level application and they would all tell me the same story, “we’re not hiring, but we will take your application.” And then it would be placed on top of a pile a foot high.  Date money came from mowing lawns. This was the malaise Carter spoke about.  First came the energy crises. I still find it hard to believe he asked America not to put up Christmas lights one year, and the odd-even gas lines, and if you want to stay warm put a sweater on he said.   Yea, I saw the light. And a few years later my solid Roosevelt-loving Democrat Dad did as well. I would have never dreamed he would one day vote Republican.  And now that the “malaise” is back I pray moderates get shaken from the trance Obama has them in and wake up!

Oh and when I left the Navy during  Reagan’s term, help wanted signs were everywhere in my home town.  There was a building boom with strip malls going up everywhere and new housing. It was a different world that the home town of 1977 I left.

Our experiences are very similar. USN 77 - 81.

I had to turn down job offers in '81. I couldn't buy a job in 77.
I'm in the blue part of Ohio. Many of my relatives are still solidly Democrat.

[mystery-ak]

He's been leading you people around by the nose since he got here.

Wake up...

I agree...