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Offline Rapunzel

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« on: July 06, 2013, 05:14:56 PM »
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 05:16:23 PM »
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline mountaineer

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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 06:59:48 PM »
What a chilling quote from Sen. Church!
"Because men have lost the objective basis of certainty of knowledge of the thing in which they are working, more and more I fear we are going to find them manipulating science according to their own sociological or political desires rather than standing upon concrete objectivity." Francis A. Schaeffer

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 11:28:47 PM »
What a chilling quote from Sen. Church!

Have you read Black List?  I'm thinking I might want to read it before reading his latest.  and yes.. what Church said was chilling in light of what we know.  These are the reasons I was against the Patriot Act, DHLS, and more after 911. I have always been against passing more laws in an emergency and we know that much of the 911 report -- which I have and have read - was not accurate. 
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 12:55:49 AM »
Every government becomes dangerous when it (finally) decides to turn on its own citizens.  The only question now is whether the US government can be brought back from the brink, or whether it's already too late to prevent the eventual mutation into a stereotypical police state.

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 12:56:55 AM »
I fear the latter, O. 
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 01:06:15 AM »
I fear the latter, O. 

It's too ambiguous right now.  The biggest problem, in my view, is the number of people who decided to join the government after 9/11 to fight against the terrorists:  too many of these people are very rigid, see things in only binary, black and white, terms - you are either good or bad, nothing in between - and measure things primarily from their own subjective sense of what is right and what is wrong, and more to the point, who is good and who is bad.  They will fight hard to protect those whom they see as good - for which they get kudos - but they will fight even harder to destroy those whom they see as bad, and they will use whatever means available and due process be damned - to them, their subjective evaluation of your goodness or badness is all the due process their targets are ever entitled to.

Another part of the problem is the fact that 9/11 shredded most of the leashes used to control law enforcement agents who went rogue, allowing even the normally sane agents to give vent to their own worst instincts with impunity and immunity.

These two groups of people are busily shredding the institutional cultures that created strong self-imposed limitations on what law enforcement agents could do in pursuit of their agendas and goals (and even then, those limitations were not particularly great - from time out of mind, for example, district attorneys and prosecutors have always had - and have always exercised - the power to flout the law and engage in very unjust conduct, all in the name of seeking "justice").  If these people are successful, then the genie will never willingly go back into the bottle (to start mixing my metaphors); if not, then we still have a chance to rebottle the genie.

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 01:09:49 AM »
Quote
- from time out of mind, for example, district attorneys and prosecutors have always had - and have always exercised - the power to flout the law and engage in very unjust conduct, all in the name of seeking "justice").

Yes. The Zimmerman case is prima facie evidence.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline DCPatriot

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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 11:43:18 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=jfxv4wpggoc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=jfxv4wpggoc</a>



Something to think about here.......
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Whatever you're doing today, do it with all the confidence of a four-year-old wearing a Batman tee-shirt.

Offline Fishrrman

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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 09:26:14 PM »


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