Author Topic: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason  (Read 5162 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,125
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2013, 05:39:27 pm »
Quote
does anyone really think that hardcore terrorists were communicating in the open via telephone or internet? 
The Boston bombers - terrorists - got their bomb-making instructions via the internet, didn't they? I'm not sure what a hardcore terrorist is. Seems to me that anyone who harbors thoughts of committing an act - any act - of terrorisms is hardcore enough. Even  schmucks like the Tsarnaev brothers can cause plenty of mayhem.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,277
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2013, 05:40:52 pm »
Apparently, it's not just Verizon. It's all telephone services.

How do you think the FBI was able to listen to telephone conversations that Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his wife had *before* the bombing occurred?

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2013, 05:44:25 pm »
The Boston bombers - terrorists - got their bomb-making instructions via the internet, didn't they? I'm not sure what a hardcore terrorist is. Seems to me that anyone who harbors thoughts of committing an act - any act - of terrorisms is hardcore enough. Even  schmucks like the Tsarnaev brothers can cause plenty of mayhem.

Fair enough.  But, as GourmetDan points out - having that information didn't do us a lick of good, did it?

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,277
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2013, 05:46:51 pm »
Fair enough.  But, as GourmetDan points out - having that information didn't do us a lick of good, did it?

The point I was making was that the phone calls were recorded before the event when there was no reason to record them.

This means that all phone calls are recorded as they are made.


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,125
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2013, 05:48:04 pm »
Try to make sense of this:
Quote
Intelligence chief Clapper: I gave ‘least untruthful’ answer on U.S. spying


Director of National Intelligence James Clapper is really struggling to explain why he told Congress in March (see video above) that the National Security Agency does not intentionally collect any kind of data on millions of Americans. His latest take: It's an unfair question, he said, like "When are you going to stop beating your wife?" And it seems to depend on the meaning of "collect."

"I responded in what I thought was the most truthful, or least untruthful, manner by saying 'no,'" Clapper told NBC News on Sunday.

A newly revealed NSA program, however, in which the agency secretly vacuumed up the telephone records of millions of Verizon customers seems to fit the definition of both "data" and "millions of Americans."

Last week, Clapper said his "no" meant that NSA analysts don't read Americans' emails. Some have noted that could explain his earlier answer because "collect" has a precise meaning in intelligence-gathering circles, and it's along those lines.

On Sunday, Clapper elaborated: "This has to do with of course somewhat of a semantic, perhaps some would say too cute by half. But it is—there are honest differences on the semantics of what—when someone says 'collection' to me, that has a specific meaning, which may have a different meaning to him."

Below is the exchange in the March hearing of the relevant Senate Intelligence Committee. Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore.—who has long warned about excessive government surveillance of Americans, though in veiled terms because the information is classified—had just one question for Clapper.
Quote
Wyden: "And this is for you, Director Clapper, again on the surveillance front. And I hope we can do this in just a yes or no answer, because I know Sen. Feinstein wants to move on.

"Last summer the NSA director was at a conference and he was asked a question about the NSA surveillance of Americans. He replied, and I quote here, '... the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people is completely false.'

"The reason I'm asking the question is, having served on the committee now for a dozen years, I don't really know what a dossier is in this context. So what I wanted to see is if you could give me a yes or no answer to the question: Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"

Clapper: "No, sir."

Wyden: "It does not."

Clapper: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly."

Wyden: "All right. Thank you. I'll have additional questions to give you in writing on that point, but I thank you for the answer."

On Sunday, NBC News' Andrea Mitchell pressed him on the NSA collection and on the exchange with Wyden.

Clapper suggested that the senator's question was unfair.

"As I said, I have great respect for Sen. Wyden. I thought, though in retrospect, I was asked [a] 'When are you going to stop beating your wife' kind of question, which is ... not answerable necessarily by a simple yes or no," Clapper said.

"So I responded in what I thought was the most truthful, or least untruthful, manner by saying 'no,'" Clapper said, indicating that he did not consider it "collection" unless government officials actually reviewed the content of the communications. The NSA program, regarding phone records, scoops up "metadata"—phone numbers called, duration of calls, location and the like.
Yahoo News
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 05:48:53 pm by mountaineer »
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline evadR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,190
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2013, 08:28:40 pm »
" Oaths mean nothing if I believe I am honoring a higher cause."

I believe that's straight out of The Punisher...Thomas Jane Version.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline evadR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,190
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2013, 08:30:19 pm »
Fair enough.  But, as GourmetDan points out - having that information didn't do us a lick of good, did it?
Only because those charged with protecting us chose to ignore it.
That's a whole different issue.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71,613
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bolton: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is guilty of treason
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2013, 09:23:08 pm »
Pretty clear cut to me.  The government is spying on all of us without cause.  Rand Paul is right, it they suspect we did something then get a warrant, no warrant no spying. Period.  Another thing he said is they collect so much data they cannot see the forest for the trees, thus the real criminals - like Tsaraneav slips though the cracks...  they were warned about them and that would have been appropriate for a warrant and more - yet they didn't even know they left the country.

Bottom line, government is out of control and we are all their all too willing dupes.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776